The Sino-Russian Strategic Partnership starts to get serious!

Blackstone

Brigadier
The Chinese Space Program to be honest is one area the Chinese have rushed ahead of the Russian Space Agency. although based on the same designs the Russian units are far older in systems then the PRC by making a Deal with Russia the Chinese are strapping lead weights to there ankles.

US keeping China off the ISS may turn out to be a strategic mistake, because it forced Beijing to develop its own space station (weapon platforms?) with little US/international oversight. I'm not sure what the US was trying to achieve, since the Chinese already stole everything worth stealing.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
That was going to happen anyway. The Reason the PRC was not let on ISS is because the PLA and the PRC space program are far closer in relation ship then the US wanted. the Goal of ISS was first cost mitigation second cooperative civil Space.
The problem of the ISS is it's limiting. you can't do as you please on ISS and by being reliant on other programs those who take part are constrained well on ISS. they are interdependent on each other The Russian Modules Are dependent on the American and the American are reliant on the Russian, and all parties are territorial. The Russians run there part and keep to there hab well the US does it's thing and the Japanese are over there and the Europeans are doing things over there and if any thing breaks down you have to start asking permission to cross the boarders. Oh and the whole thing by being built the way it is is a mess because The Russians have been delaying a number of modules that were supposed to be launched by now.
Having your own Station is really a smart thing and I give Kudo's to China for planing there own. The Russian's right now seem to be looking to debate there own that's part of the reason they recently announced there pull out after 2020. That and Putin is reorganizing the entire Space Program back to the Mega program model of the USSR.
 

Doombreed

Junior Member
One of the common themes you often hear is the "Chinese Strategic Blunders" that's pushing South East Asian nations into the American orbit. Well, I think the closer ties between Russia and China from mutual American encroachment is far more beneficial than having SEA counties running into your arms for protection. China and Russia has had difficulties forming a partnership ever since the sino-soviet split. Two alpha males in the same room are bound to eye each other up. The aggressive manoeuvres of America have done wonders in allowing both sides to see benefits in co-operation.

The gas deal has the classic Chinese touch about it. A hard bargain on per unit price, but China will build infrastructure for you afterwards. It gives the locals something tangible to improve their lives, prevents the dividends only going to the elites, and keeps Chinese workers employed, while at the same time paving the way for future market penetration by Chinese firms. Very similar to what China has been doing in Africa. Granted there’s not much of a market in Siberia, but Russia will never the less be grateful for the capital development.
 

SampanViking

The Capitalist
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
The key words that have appeared time after time in the communiques of the last few days are "Joint" and "Integration"

In Space there is a lot to be gained by two large neighbouring countries as "joint and Integrated" systems can cover both of their territories just as easily as their own.

There were stories circulating earlier today about a Joint Missile Defence Programme. The stories were quietly quashed soon after, but that does not mean they can be discounted. If people are looking at such things as Joint Missile Defence, then Integrated Air Defence becomes almost a modest objective.

The other big story is the Joint Ventures of large Chinese and Russian Industrials. This could be a critical step for both countries if their defence giants start to pair up in this way. The role of Chinese Capital needs little explanation and the Russian partners will be very pleased to see it roll, but what does Russia offer China?

I know that many here regard Chinese technology as at least as good as Russian in most areas and catching up in others. This has left them sceptical of the benefits. Well the technology argument may or may not be true, but I do know what Russia has that China wants - Established customers and market share. I think both countries realise that the marriage and access is far preferable to hard competition, which is likely to lead only to beggar thy neighbour sales polices.

This way will be a true win-win!
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
I'm going to do some media bashing because they deserve it. To the run up days before, the media were putting stories out there that Russia was going to be taken advantage of by the Chinese because they don't have Europe as an alternative to set prices higher. Late yesterday afternoon there were a flurry of news articles stating Putin failed to sign the gas deal. The spin was the Chinese were unreasonable demanding a lower than reasonable price and what was happening in Ukraine to which is being painted as Putin retreating crawling back to Europe and didn't need the Chinese anymore.

Voila! They signed the deal.

Like the media is now not in the business of determining what policies countries follow and not just reporting the news? They were reporting wishful thinking as fact. This reminds me of a Twilight Zone episode where the Devil was a newspaper typist and whatever he printed on his printing press came true. The media today is not the Devil but they're just mad pouting and stamping their little feet wondering why should the Devil deserve such a machine when they don't have one.
 

Doombreed

Junior Member
One of Russia's biggest concerns has always been about a potential domination of the far east by China through demographic changes. There is a massive pool of population on the Chinese side of the border ready and willing to venture north. Their biggest fear, is that if they allowed Chinese construction workers to work in the far east, they might just choose to stay. Would be interesting to see what the actual details of the deal is. Is it just Chinese money for the infrastructures? Or are Chinese firms involved as well? I just don't see how it's economical without using Chinese construction firms and workers. And indeed, it must be something that the Chinese has pushed for.

The deal was sign at 04:00 Chinese time. I wonder how much the Russians conceded.
 
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port_08

Junior Member
The denomination they would use for this exchange\deal will be using Chinese Yuan and Russian Ruble. This would minimize the US Dollar influence in this deal. Chinese goods need Chinese Yuan, Russian gas need Rubles....
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
One of Russia's biggest concerns has always been about a potential domination of the far east by China through demographic changes. There is a massive pool of population on the Chinese side of the border ready and willing to venture north. Their biggest fear, is that if they allowed Chinese construction workers to work in the far east, they might just choose to stay. Would be interesting to see what the actual details of the deal is. Is it just Chinese money for the infrastructures? Or are Chinese firms involved as well? I just don't see how it's economical without using Chinese construction firms and workers. And indeed, it must be something that the Chinese has pushed for.

The deal was sign at 04:00 Chinese time. I wonder how much the Russians conceded.

I read a story of a Russian pig farmer near the Chinese border who wants to expand and sell pork to China. Problem is he can't find enough people to work for him. He's tried to get Chinese in China to work for him but can't. Go figure!

Just another Tom Clancy myth. People would rather believe China wants to invade Russia no matter what. Russian does have nukes and who in the world would care if China got nuked. So if Russia isn't planning to get rid of their nukes, they don't have much to worry about.
 

Doombreed

Junior Member
Just another Tom Clancy myth. People would rather believe China wants to invade Russia no matter what. Russian does have nukes and who in the world would care if China got nuked. So if Russia isn't planning to get rid of their nukes, they don't have much to worry about.

No one is saying China would "invade" Russia. But when ethnic Chinese becomes 30% of the far east population, Russia is going to have issues. Or so they think.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
And that is always referred to as an invasion. You don't see Chinese doing it now. The whole negative perception it was done through illegal means. Sorry to tell you but if the Russians aren't developing the east, why would Chinese bother to want to stay in a large mass of cold and wilderness. That's where the hostile invasion part comes in to which you can look at my previous post to see why that isn't going to happen either. But the fact is no one is thinking that deep so what's it about is good ole Yellow Peril nonsense.
 
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