The military budget of China in 2007 financial year

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fishhead

Banned Idiot
Chinese people quite support the defence budget increase and most of them think it's even not enough yet. Also Chinese finacial situation allows it - last year its government revenue jumped almost 25%, so defence spending is actually lags behind.

Unless US gets its hand off Taiwan I don't see anytime soon they will stop increasing budget, they will do it until all the west pacific falls into their firing power range, or even east part if it.
 

tphuang

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TP, you frequently take swipes at me. Why are you so unhappy with me expressing my opinion that you need to make nasty implications about me? Do I accuse you of having an agenda or anything negative of the like?
The thing is, you are on a Chinese defence forum and most posters on this forum are supporters of PLA and China. So, if you take a lot of swipes at China, you are going to get in a lot heated debates with other members that can turn into flaming threads. I'm saying that you can assimilate yourself in the environment a little more by spending a little more time thinking about why China does certain things. You can find your answer. And then I don't have to moderate as many troubling threads.
It's obvious why China is increasing the defence budget at all. But I have still not heard a credible answer as to why the rate of increase seems to be constantly accelerating. What's the rush - does the "shop" close in a few years time?
See, now this is a better question. I guess the answer is that the reasons are that their economy is increasing faster and also that they are generally spending more on their public programs. And if you read through this thread, you can find a lot of answers to why, like gov't getting more revenue through different taxes and such, government spending more money in general (compared to the GDP growth). Military expenditure is just along as part of the ride.
Then why aren't the public auditors allowed to see the books?
Does China allow public auditors to see any of their other books?
What are you blithering about? I have never used the x3 numbers.
I figure it will eventually show up somewhere in this discussion.

Actually I don't think countries like China, USA and Russia spending more on their defense is wrong or irresponsible. The reason is that they are simply going to put this money back into their economy and support their domestic industries. It's far more irresponsible for countries like India, Pakistan, Greece and Turkey to spend as much as they do, because they are actually using that money to buy equipments from other country.
 

10754750miles

Just Hatched
Registered Member
The thing is, you are on a Chinese defence forum and most posters on this forum are supporters of PLA and China. So, if you take a lot of swipes at China, you are going to get in a lot heated debates with other members that can turn into flaming threads. I'm saying that you can assimilate yourself in the environment a little more by spending a little more time thinking about why China does certain things. You can find your answer. And then I don't have to moderate as many troubling threads.

See, now this is a better question. I guess the answer is that the reasons are that their economy is increasing faster and also that they are generally spending more on their public programs. And if you read through this thread, you can find a lot of answers to why, like gov't getting more revenue through different taxes and such, government spending more money in general (compared to the GDP growth). Military expenditure is just along as part of the ride.

Does China allow public auditors to see any of their other books?

I figure it will eventually show up somewhere in this discussion.

Actually I don't think countries like China, USA and Russia spending more on their defense is wrong or irresponsible. The reason is that they are simply going to put this money back into their economy and support their domestic industries. It's far more irresponsible for countries like India, Pakistan, Greece and Turkey to spend as much as they do, because they are actually using that money to buy equipments from other country.

nice observation ;) one would wonder with 700 something posts here, you should have at least learned or at least assimilate part of chinese culture or reasoning behind certain things that are done by china, but boy, ignorance can really take you far. i'm no expert myself, so just enjoying my time here reading these information and insights, but i learnt one important lesson, don't bother with anything that fumanchu writes. :eek:ff i know. i apologized.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Lol, do I have to answer that question. Singapore is TINY, so needs to be able to have a disproportionate amount of force for its size. Otherwise it would be swatted away. On the other hand, China is so large it doesn't need to spend 5% of GDP on defence to stop an invading power.

In term of defense Singapore is not a small country She has budget of 7 billion US dollar easily dwarf the combine budget of Indonesia(1.5 Billion),Malaysia(2 Billion)and Thailand(1.5 Billion)
Even if Singapore is not threated by anyone She perceived a threat simply by being predominantly Chinese state in the mids sea of rising fanatical islam So is the rational for the huge defense spending

Perceiption matter a lot You say Japan doesn't harbour ill feeling toward China but the matter is Japan create the perception that she gang up with US in trying to contain or strangle China(expended security arrangement, and effort to build missile defense and irresponsible statement of politician and military men)

China now probably has the largest defence budget in the region (excluding the US, which isn't an Asian state) - even SIPRI's projections would support that.

No Japan has the highest defense spending in Asia. Whether US is an Asian state or not is irrelevant,the fact is US station large defense forces in Asia with their bases in Okinawa, Yokosuka, and other bases in Japan. Not only that she maintain huge naval fleet in the form of 7th fleet

1% of GDP. I'll say it again - 1% of GDP. Given Japan had to worry about Russia, North Korea and China during the Cold War, I don't think that was disproportionate spending. Now, of course, it still has North Korea there causing trouble and China as a rising power.

Hmm let see Japan was stagnate for the last 10 years assuming that her economy stay the same 1% out of 3.5 Trillion economy is 35 billion dollar(total 35X12=420 billion). Assuming that japan grow 3% over the previous 10 years and let say average her economy is 2 trillion dolaar 1% of it is 20 billion a year. That is total spending of 200 billion dollar over 10 years
So over 20 years total 620 billion dollar

Now let do the same with China. In the year before 2000 China economy is less than 500 billion so even if she lie and spend 2% of GDP that will make it 10 billion or over 10 years the total is 100 billion

Fast forward let average China economy as 1.5 trillion over the next 10 year let say she spend 1.5% of GDP to military budget that will amount to 20 billion/year or over 10 year is 200 billion Total spending is 300 billion

Well that is almost half what Japan spend on the military expenditure over 20 years. No wonder that Japan can afford 46 modern DDG and FFG and China has only half the amount


Would you bank on another country saving your bacon when the going got tough? Besides the Americans would not be able to help Japan if its defence forces were rolled over by an aggressor because someone decided that 1% of GDP was "too much" for Japan to spend. :coffee:

China has no reason to attack Japan unless Japan get involve in Taiwan dispute
 
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ofone

New Member
Why the military budget of China is so much?
Because China need to update their ordnances and China have to face the threaten of Japan.
Why Japan is a threaten?
Japan is the only country which has enough techs and moneys to equip their armys and already had a modernized army in asia.And this country had a military tradition. Japan harried east coast of China for hundreds years,and invaded whole east asia in last century.
China didn't invaded any country in history,except self defence.Radically,China is not a greedy nation.1000 years before,China is the most powerful nation in the world,but she never invaded any country to build a global power.
The US force in Japan is not only to prevent the war in taiwan strait,but it's also stop Japan keeping on its militarism.
Both as regional power,the competition between China and Japan will make westen countries much more security.

The economy budget of China with deeply chinese characteristic is very special.
We should not simply compare the numbers with other countrys.It will not decrease the misunderstandings.
And we must notice that the increased number is ultimately magnified by the changes of the exchange rate of RMB.
 
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D

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The thing is, you are on a Chinese defence forum and most posters on this forum are supporters of PLA and China.

Just because I question whether the PLA should have a budget increase of nearly 18% does not mean I am not a "supporter" of China. People who care for a person, country, etc should be quite willing to criticise it when things go wrong. I do criticise aspects of military spending I do not agree with - on other areas I support it.

Maybe some people here can't stand the sight of a non-Chinese having anything negative to say, but that's their problem - not mine.

See, now this is a better question.

It's the same question I was asking at the start.

I guess the answer is that the reasons are that their economy is increasing faster and also that they are generally spending more on their public programs..... Military expenditure is just along as part of the ride.

It is a fairly substantial increase, the growth rate in the military budget being about 3% higher than last year. I can understand that general spending has gone up, but I just wondered why there was the continual acceleration in the military budget expanding faster than the economy. Maybe you can't answer that question and you don't need to - some questions can be left unanswered. If people had just ignored my original point we wouldn't still be having this discussion.

Does China allow public auditors to see any of their other books?

Yes. Most public finances are under the auditors' remit - except the military (and maybe foreign) budgets. The Auditor General has been trying for a long time to get access to those other areas, but has been refused.

It's far more irresponsible for countries like India, Pakistan, Greece and Turkey to spend as much as they do, because they are actually using that money to buy equipments from other country.

You mean not develop their local industry? Well that's their choice - not everyone can afford to make their own systems. India may do in the future, but Greece and Turkey will probably always rely on imports.
 

tphuang

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Just because I question whether the PLA should have a budget increase of nearly 18% does not mean I am not a "supporter" of China. People who care for a person, country, etc should be quite willing to criticise it when things go wrong. I do criticise aspects of military spending I do not agree with - on other areas I support it.

Maybe some people here can't stand the sight of a non-Chinese having anything negative to say, but that's their problem - not mine.
What I'm saying is that when something is as obvious as "why china is increasing and expanding its military". US and Japan both know what the reason is and they are just asking it, so they can get China to say "I'm a bad nation, I'm here to cause a regional arm race, because I want to be the strongest nation in the area" instead of "peaceful rise". People on this forum don't need to repeat the same rhetoric. And you constantly do this. Do we need this game of hide and seek, no?
It's the same question I was asking at the start.
this is a more specific question that's not as much of a rhetoric.
It is a fairly substantial increase, the growth rate in the military budget being about 3% higher than last year. I can understand that general spending has gone up, but I just wondered why there was the continual acceleration in the military budget expanding faster than the economy. Maybe you can't answer that question and you don't need to - some questions can be left unanswered. If people had just ignored my original point we wouldn't still be having this discussion.
They got more money in 2006 than 2005, they got faster GDP growth in 2006 than 2005, they got even more money to spend from their ballooning surpluses. And they've finally decided to spend the money they got from the record surpluses. They are not increasing military spending any faster than other government spending.

Do you think any Western government's spending is dependent on their GDP growth? No, it's dependent on how much money they get from tax revenue and other sources. If the communist govt gets 25% increase in revenue, why can't they spend 25% extra (actually less in case) than previous year. I don't think I've ever heard of anything as ridiculous military expenditure growth has to be <= GDP growth until criticism of Chinese military expenditure started.
Yes. Most public finances are under the auditors' remit - except the military (and maybe foreign) budgets. The Auditor General has been trying for a long time to get access to those other areas, but has been refused.
First, I'm talking about the more sensitive departments. Second, which auditor general?
You mean not develop their local industry? Well that's their choice - not everyone can afford to make their own systems. India may do in the future, but Greece and Turkey will probably always rely on imports.
really? buying your own equipments from your industry lower unemployment rate and such, spur exports and is good for the economy. Buying other's equipments can possibly improve you relation with the seller, but that's it. If they can't do that, maybe they should stop spending so much of their tax payer's money on military.
 

fishhead

Banned Idiot
I read some Chinese internet sites, there even aren't a single blink or frown about this news, ususally the crowd are pretty anti-goverment. Actually I think the other way, if the government doesn't do a fast-pace buildup in defence, there will be a big uproar from the mass. Chinese won't let Taiwan slip away no matter what kind of war it needs to be fought, it's the overwheleming determination supported by the whole country.

Also China needs to build up its own defence industry complex, it already layed down the fundation larger than the America's. These days Chinese private sections are really catching up in the fields of efficiency, technology innovation and complexity, for example Chinese UN troop chose the armored vehicles built by the private companies, at the fraction of cost of the state industry built. Just recently the state announces to open up the defence industry to the private companies. They will do that not by cutting the fund to the state companies, but by allocating more fund to the private sections, which requies the increase of defence spending.

The trend of building up the defence wont stop in any near future.
 
D

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US and Japan both know what the reason is and they are just asking it, so they can get China to say "I'm a bad nation, I'm here to cause a regional arm race, because I want to be the strongest nation in the area" instead of "peaceful rise". People on this forum don't need to repeat the same rhetoric. And you constantly do this. Do we need this game of hide and seek, no?

I don't give a fig why the US and Japan ask the question. I am an individual who has a right to ask questions. Don't try to censor me because China's got a bit of pressure from other countries to be more transparent.

Besides, I see plenty of rhetoric from other members of this forum usually going on about the same thing, and you never step in to scold them. So why do you target me?

I don't think I've ever heard of anything as ridiculous military expenditure growth has to be <= GDP growth until criticism of Chinese military expenditure started.

You didn't hear it from me. I was saying the budget is growing faster than the economy. But if you think it's all to do with tax receipts, maybe you could find out what the increase of tax receipts was in 2006 from 2005.

First, I'm talking about the more sensitive departments. Second, which auditor general?

No department should be so "sensitive" it refuses to let auditors look at the books. It's public money so should be examined closely.

There's only one auditor general - last time I looked it was "Iron Li" (Li Jinhua).

really? buying your own equipments from your industry lower unemployment rate and such, spur exports and is good for the economy.

That's assuming industry can produce an affordable platform that has the right capabilities.
 

fishhead

Banned Idiot
I don't give a fig why the US and Japan ask the question. I am an individual who has a right to ask questions. Don't try to censor me because China's got a bit of pressure from other countries to be more transparent.

I think in this military forum everybody with the common sense and familiar with Chinese military doctrines understands why and how it works like this in China.

You really need to direct your question to the Chinese authority, here nobody can deliver a satisfying answer anyway. But I doubt they will give you neither.

But let's stop here.
 
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