The Kashmir conflict 2025.

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
fyi, I had a podcast appearance with Steve Hsu on this subject and I think it's quite fascinating topic. Also wrt what he said regarding his Indian contact there.


You can tell just how much fear Indian YouTubers have struck into you and Steve based on how often you guys emphasized that it’s the Pakistanis version of events and that the opinions are your own so Indian friends won’t get offended lmfao. Looks like the mass reporting and banning of several YouTube channels have achieved their intended effect.
 

kursed

New Member
Thanks for your input, but there seem to be some contradictions in your claims. You initially mentioned that the JF-17s were loaded with 400AKG anti-ship missiles those are irrelevant to both A2A and A2G roles, especially in the context of this engagement.

Secondly, the image I posted clearly shows a JF-17 Block-III pilot along with another image where a JF-17 is visible in the background, which directly ties into the strike package.

I had also previously referenced the PAF spokesperson’s statement regarding the aircraft involved and their loadouts, yet you're not providing any verified or credible sources to support the claims you’re making.

Happy to have a fact-based discussion, but let's ensure we’re consistent and backing statements with reliable information.
Quite literally posted two AKGs being fired in this very thread. Feel free to check it. Besides their role isn’t restricted to anti ship missions.

This was posted by PAF, do let me know as well exactly which system is the bird carrying.


or this:

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JF has no kills during this crisis, you won’t see any A2A kill markings appear on any JF bird. Let me know if you come across one.
 
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siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator

Even though this is really old news to us, this is I think the first time Pakistan Air Force directly disclosed that J-10C performed shoot down in social media. Other claims were from government officials.
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ISLAMABAD: Just past midnight on May 7, a low hum of tension filled the Combat Operations Centre at Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Headquarters in Islamabad.

On radar screens, dozens of Indian Air Force (IAF) fighters began clustering to the north, maneuvering with unmistakable intent.

Within minutes, Pakistan’s skies were alive with scrambling fighter jets — including the most recently inducted J-10C aircraft, flown by one of its most storied units: No. 15 Squadron, the “Cobras.”

Nearly a month later, the PAF formally acknowledged what many had speculated — that it was the Kamra-based 15 Squadron that led the charge in
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six Indian Air Force (IAF) jets during what’s now considered one of the largest air-to-air engagement in South Asia in more than half a century.

Eighteen of the squadron’s 20 J-10C aircraft took part in the mission, executing a high-risk intercept against a large-scale Indian formation as part of Pakistan’s defensive response.

In a post released by the PAF’s media directorate, the Cobras were hailed for their legacy and professionalism: “From heroic air battles in the 1965 war, where Flt Lt Imtiaz Bhatti downed two Indian Vampires, to Cold War-era vigilance during the Soviet-Afghan War, the squadron has always remained combat-ready… Now equipped with J-10C 4.5+ generation fighters, the Cobras continue to embody precision, courage, and aerial dominance.”

The May 7 confrontation — triggered by India’s launch of Operation Sindoor following a deadly attack in Pahalgam — saw more than 120 aircraft take to the skies from both sides.

According to the Pakistani military’s official account, the six Indian aircraft downed included three Rafales, a MiG-29, a Mirage-2000, and a Su-30MKI — all hit by PL-15 BVR missiles fired from PAF J-10C fighters. Each launch was executed by pilots from the 15 Squadron, who are expected to be publicly named and decorated at a formal ceremony later this month.

A senior PAF official, speaking on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the matter, confirmed: “The pilots involved in the operation will be honoured soon. These are some of the finest aviators in our ranks — and their performance speaks for itself”.

The engagement, insiders say, was the result of a calculated bait-and-counter strategy. With credible intelligence of an impending Indian incursion, the PAF deployed four defensive counter-air formations and monitored over 60 Indian aircraft using its electromagnetic spectrum management systems.

“We fought the battle on our terms,” the official added. “Our kill chain was fully active. When the command shifted, while aircraft were airborne, from ‘Deter’ to ‘Assure Kill, Deny Own Loss,’ the Cobras carried out their mission with precision and control.”

Among the targets prioritised were the Rafales — the pride of the IAF since their induction in 2019. “The Indians expected the Rafales to be game chan-gers,” the official said. “So we made them our first target.”

The Indian response was initially evasive. On May 11, IAF Director General of Air Operations, Air Marshal A.K. Bharti, downplayed the situation, merely stating that “losses are a part of combat” and insisting all pilots had returned safely.

But the facade cracked during the Shangri-La Dialogue in Singapore on May 31, when India’s Chief of Defence Staff, Gen Anil Chauhan, was compelled to admit the losses, attributing them to “tactical errors.”

The admission triggered a storm of criticism back home. In a bid to contain the fallout, Gen Chauhan resorted to baffling cricket metaphors to explain away the embarrassment.

History of the Cobras


The No. 15 Squadron is no stranger to high-stakes operations. Established in 1956, the unit claimed Pakistan’s first confirmed aerial kill in 1959. It played a pivotal role in the 1965 and 1971 wars and later took on patrol and interdiction duties along the Durand Line during the Soviet-Afghan conflict.

Prior to the latest aerial engagement, the squadron participated in the 2019 Operation Swift Retort - Pakistan’s measured response to India’s Balakot airstrike. In that mission, two Mirage-VPAs from the Cobras conducted precision strikes using H-4 SOW glide bombs on open terrain adjacent to the Narian Army Base in the Rajouri Sector of Indian-Occupied Kashmir.

Following that mission, the Cobras underwent a significant transformation. In 2022, they became the first PAF squadron to transition from aging Mirage aircraft to the more advanced Chinese-built Chengdu J-10C multirole fighters. The older Mirages were reassigned to the newly established No. 50 Squadron, while the Cobras’ elevation to J-10C operators marked their formal recognition as Pakistan’s frontline aerial strike unit.

The induction of the J-10C — equipped with AESA radar, advanced datalinks, and BVR capabilities - dramatically expanded the squadron’s operational envelope, allowing it to perform both air superiority and precision strike roles across a wide spectrum of missions.

Adding to the unit’s prestige is the fact that the current Air Chief Marshal Zaheer Ahmed Baber Sidhu is a former commander of No. 15 Squadron. On the night of May 7, it was Sidhu himself who was directing combat operations from the PAF’s nerve centre in Islamabad, personally monitoring every move.

“The Cobras are our sharpest fang,” one official said. “They’ve defended this nation in every war. May 7 was no exception — only this time, the stakes were even higher.”

Back at their base in Kamra, the mood is one of pride tempered by professionalism. The PAF’s official statement ended with a sober affirmation: “Throughout its distinguished history, No. 15 Squadron has demonstrated unwavering operational resilience and tactical excellence.”

Looks like we are gonna get a summary like we did for Swift Retort before June is out. Hopefully PLAAF aviators are once again invited.
 

Aegrotare

Just Hatched
Registered Member
QUestion for the better informed. Is there any evidence that the IAF used or carried Meteors in to battle other then that they have Meteors?
 

Black Wolf

Junior Member
Registered Member
Quite literally posted two AKGs being fired in this very thread. Feel free to check it. Besides their role isn’t restricted to anti ship missions.

This was posted by PAF, do let me know as well exactly which system is the bird carrying.

or this:


JF has no kills during this crisis, you won’t see any A2A kill markings appear on any JF bird. Let me know if you come across one.

The launches and video you mentioned are clearly from 10th May, when Pakistan responded by targeting the Indian BrahMos site. This is separate from the 6th and 7th May engagements, during which all the air kills actually occurred.

So, using that footage to discuss the JF-17’s role or loadout in the earlier fights is inaccurate. It’s important to keep the timeline clear to avoid mixing details from different phases of the conflict.
 

AlexYe

Junior Member
Registered Member
QUestion for the better informed. Is there any evidence that the IAF used or carried Meteors in to battle other then that they have Meteors?
The rafales wreckage had MICA on the wing weapon mounts so no, no meteors.
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Very well written analysis on shortcomings of Indian and (to lesser extent) Pakistanis information shaping.
Oh this was posted on /credibledefense before it got deleted,
Does too much defense for indian side in my pov (considering he is active in /IndianDefense and posted this in lessCredibleDefense)
https://www.reddit.com/r/LessCredibleDefence/comments/1ku30qg
"India or Indians cannot be judged for trying to conduct their own Informational warfare nor narrative building"
You cant be saying that after indian media was claiming 'Islamabad got captured', 'Balochistan is under attack by BLA and about to be free', 'Karachi Port is destroyed' oh and the best one 'Lahore sea port got attacked' (Lahore is landlocked city)
But his 'Criticism' section is good.
 

4Tran

New Member
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Looks like we are gonna get a summary like we did for Swift Retort before June is out. Hopefully PLAAF aviators are once again invited.
Oh that's going to be juicy! This is the most significant air battle since the Gulf War and the whole world is dying to know more details about what happened. What must be frustrating for the IAF is that they know little more than outside observers.

One other tidbit is that if Pakistan managed to get 18 J-10s into the action, that says a lot of good things about their readiness rates and how well they were prepared for this battle.

The rafales wreckage had MICA on the wing weapon mounts so no, no meteors.

Oh this was posted on /credibledefense before it got deleted,
Does too much defense for indian side in my pov (considering he is active in /IndianDefense and posted this in lessCredibleDefense)
https://www.reddit.com/r/LessCredibleDefence/comments/1ku30qg
If the PAF only went after Indian planes which launched weapons first then it would make sense that they wouldn't have Meteors. You probably wouldn't mix a strike loadout with big BVR missiles like that.

Also, I'm not sure how Indian promoters expect to be taken seriously when they claim "proof" of shooting down C-130Js when Pakistan doesn't have any!
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Oh that's going to be juicy! This is the most significant air battle since the Gulf War and the whole world is dying to know more details about what happened. What must be frustrating for the IAF is that they know little more than outside observers.

One other tidbit is that if Pakistan managed to get 18 J-10s into the action, that says a lot of good things about their readiness rates and how well they were prepared for this battle.


If the PAF only went after Indian planes which launched weapons first then it would make sense that they wouldn't have Meteors. You probably wouldn't mix a strike loadout with big BVR missiles like that.

Also, I'm not sure how Indian promoters expect to be taken seriously when they claim "proof" of shooting down C-130Js when Pakistan doesn't have any!

It’s the Bekka Valley of South Asia. Only the grace of PAF prevented IAF from suffering Syrian level losses. Pakistan’s achievements are arguably more impressive since they went up against aircraft of same generation whereas Israelis had superior hardware.
 
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