How can we be sure of this information?
The Kashmir conflict 2025.
- Thread starter ohan_qwe
- Start date
So mass drone warfare did happen! India sent dozens (not thousands) of their most numerous drones.
There is a reason why it was just dozens. LOL
The Jerusalem Post in 2019 that India had bought several batches of HAROP drones from Israel, including the purchase of 10 drones in a $100 million deal.
already has a number of the Harop drones developed by Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI), having purchased 10 of them in September 2009 in a deal worth some $100 million.The Harop is a small drone which, according to the company’s website, is a combination of the “capabilities of a UAV [Unmanned Aerial Vehicle] and a lethal missile.”
Compared to how Russia do comparable imported suicide drones:
- Shahed Drones:
- Estimates for the Shahed-136 range from $20,000 to $50,000 per unit.
- Upgrades and increased production have led to a higher estimated unit cost of around $80,000 as of April 2024.
- Harop Drones:
- The Indian Air Force purchased "up to 10" Harop systems for $100 million.
- This suggests a per-unit cost of approximately $10 million for the Harop, significantly higher than the
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
I don't think it's true. Just because they say they could have shot another 10, we are to believe them? They claimed to have downed 3 Rafales and we don't have evidence past one. I think the announcer got overly excited and started BSing; maybe he meant he thinks they could have killed 10 more if they were more aggressively hunting them, but that's in retrospect because they weren't more aggressive at the time to protect themselves. These are independent pilots out there fighting and I highly doubt any one of them had any Indian jets locked on, then checked with central command to see how many where downed, and decided that's too many. Everyone was out for blood and glory!
This is in 2019 as reported by a JF-17 pilot*:
“One mission took place in the days following the Indian Air Force’s attempted strikes in Pakistan border region- at five in the night I took off in rain and low cloud with TS in the vicinity. Clouds were from 4,000 till 33,000 feet. Got out of clouds and controller reported two Su-30s ‘across the fence’. I targeted them at ranges beyond 50-60 NM but didn’t get authorisation to engage from controller, continued to grind above 32,000 flowing hot and cold 20-30NM from fence targeting the Su-30s. The IAF scrambled a total of six more Su-30s and finally I had eight Su-30s in front. Would turn hot and target each one in sequence from north to south (just spike them seeing whether they get lured in or not). After hitting texaco (air refuelling) returned to based amid rain and wet runway.. the first thing ground crew did was count the missiles.. gave a disappointed look once all were intact. the same profile continued for a couple of month but that first mission was an unbelievable experience.”
*
Hi,
GIDS already having something similar to Harop
SARFIROSH Kamikaze Munition
SARFIROSH is an advanced Kamikaze Drone, equipped with canister launch technology, offers exceptional performance and versatility. Its 1000 km range enables long-distance strikes against high-value targets, while its significant speed ensures rapid deployment and engagement. The drone's payload capacity enables it to carry a variety of warheads, from conventional explosives to specialized munitions tailored for specific targets. The canister launch system provides a compact and efficient means of deployment, making it suitable for various platforms, including ground vehicles and ships. With its combination of range, speed, payload capacity, and
The author, Phismem Barker, did a pretty decent job for Western media.
On bilibili, a college teacher analyzes military circuit boards while teaching electronic design competitions skills.
Many viewers surprised to find that these “military grade” design level are actually low and even flaws, and the components are cheap, many of which are even civilian chips.
The boom of the electronics industry in the past 20 years has greatly reduced the price and manufacturing threshold of guided weapons and drones. So the seized drone is actually no big deal, at least from a hardware perspective.
Many viewers surprised to find that these “military grade” design level are actually low and even flaws, and the components are cheap, many of which are even civilian chips.
The boom of the electronics industry in the past 20 years has greatly reduced the price and manufacturing threshold of guided weapons and drones. So the seized drone is actually no big deal, at least from a hardware perspective.
The image looks real, as the account is an OSINT:
Now the destruction itself seems to need verification. Pakistan did indeed attack Jammu, and India appears to have launched several SAMs to intercept it, so the conclusion itself needs further evidence.
An Excellent write up
Why India’s Air Force Is Grounded—and Why It’s Afraid to Rise Again
I began this story three days ago, but I decided to pause it for the sake of peace.
Now, I feel ready to fully engage as I see my existence is at stake—threatened by two Gujjus—and I will continue with my creative strategy.
But today I saw the whole world reporting that Modi’s empire of illusions now stands exposed, like the emperor with no clothes. The myth of invincibility, the choreography of dominance, and the Rafale-powered bravado have all crumbled in the face of one cold truth: the battlefield doesn’t lie.
His spectacle of superiority was built on borrowed tech and media muscle—not on battlefield supremacy. The silence of Indian jets, the retreat of doctrine, and the unmistakable debris scattered across Kashmir tell a different story—one of strategic paralysis and tactical emb
Inspired by “How China helped Pakistan shoot down Indian fighter jets”
At 4:00 a.m., something extraordinary happened—not on the battlefield, but in the diplomatic shadows. China’s ambassador to Pakistan reportedly made an urgent call to Rawalpindi. Within hours, a long-prepared contingency went live. What followed wasn’t just an air skirmish—it was a revelation that shattered the myth of India’s air dominance.
The Indian Air Force had been assembling for days—nearly 180 aircraft concentrated on the western front. The goal was clear: repeat Balakot, break Pakistani defenses, and restore the image of strategic supremacy.
But the skies were no longer the same.
Why They Stayed 300 km Away
The Indian Air Force never crossed the threshold. They knew what waited for them beyond it:
Chinese J-10C fighters, sleek and silent
PL-15 missiles, Mach 5 hunters with over 300 km range
Erieye radars, linking every shooter into a single deadly nervous system
What India saw was not just Pakistani pilots—it was China’s entire air warfare doctrine stretching from Skardu to Pasni.
And the Rafales? They never saw it coming.
One Rafale—valued at over $250 million—was reportedly shot down mid-air. Another barely made it back. The Spectra EW system, designed to protect it, was overwhelmed. The PL-15 didn’t come with radar—it came with AI-guided silence.
This wasn’t a dogfight. It was an ambush.
The Pakistani Air Force, aided by Chinese targeting satellites and AWACS, executed a sensor-fusion kill. The Rafales never got a lock, never even saw their adversary. When the missiles hit, it was already over.
And India knew: if one Rafale can fall, so can five.
That’s why the fleet was grounded.
That’s why they stay 300 km away from the border.
Not because they lack courage—but because they now lack certainty.
Strategic Embarrassment
The implications are enormous. India’s prestige weapon, the Rafale, fell to a Chinese missile fired by a Pakistani jet. That’s not just a tactical failure—it’s a geopolitical message.
Even Bloomberg wrote it: this is a live demonstration of Chinese-Pakistani integrated warfare.
Western analysts are stunned. French defense contracts are rattled.
China, meanwhile, is watching quietly… and smiling.
The Game Has Changed
This isn’t 2019. This isn’t Balakot.
India now knows that any venture into Pakistani airspace invites a death trap orchestrated by J-10Cs, PL-15s, and Pakistani resolve.
So they stay back.
Grounded by fear.
Blinded by radar.
And humiliated by silence.
“The Indian pilot didn’t fail from lack of skill.
He failed inside a battlefield he couldn’t see—
built by satellites, linked by sensors, and executed by machines.”
In May 2025, the game changed. India’s long-nurtured dream of aerial supremacy—anchored in the purchase of 36 Rafale jets, backed by the mythical Spectra EW suite and decades of French engineering—came crashing down over Kashmir.
It wasn’t a dogfight.
It wasn’t even a fair fight.
It was a doctrinal collapse, witnessed in real time by every military strategist across the globe.
The #Rafale was supposed to be untouchable. Its technology, unmatched. Its pilots, elite. But on that fateful day, it flew into a kill box it never saw. And never escaped.
The Lethal Kill Chain
China quietly stepped in—not in the way most Western analysts imagined.
There were no J-20s or war declarations.
There was a box. A network. A silent chain of observation and execution:
Saab Erieye AWACS patrolling silently
J-10C fighters flying in passive mode
PL-15E missiles—the export PL-15E, the domestic variant with over 300 km reach and Mach 5 speed—locked in and fired
The Rafale didn’t even know it was targeted until the missile was 50 km away.
At that speed, the Indian pilot had 9 seconds.
Not enough to react.
Not enough to survive.
Why the IAF Is Grounded
You don’t see the Indian Air Force over Kashmir anymore.
Why?
Because every time a fighter lifts off, Pakistani radars pick it up.
Because the Erieye sees what Indian radars can’t.
Because the PL-15 launches from outside Rafale’s threat envelope.
Because the Rafale, once India’s silver bullet, has been turned into a $250 million sitting duck.
The IAF now flies 300 km behind its own borders.
Balakot 2.0? It will not happen. Not in this sky.
A Doctrinal Humbling
The world is watching the fallout.
Dassault Aviation’s share price remains stagnant.
Chinese defense stocks—AVIC, ALD Chengdu—are surging.
Because the battlefield was not decided in a dogfight.
It was decided by C4ISR supremacy—Command, Control, Communication, Computers, Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance.
Pakistan did not outgun India.
It out-networked it.
And India, stunned, grounded its birds.
India’s Pain, Pakistan’s Message
India invested in platforms. Pakistan invested in kill chains.
Modi’s doctrine was: buy dominance.
Reality proved: you must build dominance.
No Spectra system can counter a missile it never detects.
No EW suite can spoof a missile fed by satellite data.
No fighter jet can outrun the death it doesn’t see coming.
The sky has changed.
This is not the end of air combat.
It is the beginning of silent, invisible, unanswerable air dominance.
Why India’s Air Force Is Grounded—and Why It’s Afraid to Rise Again
I began this story three days ago, but I decided to pause it for the sake of peace.
Now, I feel ready to fully engage as I see my existence is at stake—threatened by two Gujjus—and I will continue with my creative strategy.
But today I saw the whole world reporting that Modi’s empire of illusions now stands exposed, like the emperor with no clothes. The myth of invincibility, the choreography of dominance, and the Rafale-powered bravado have all crumbled in the face of one cold truth: the battlefield doesn’t lie.
His spectacle of superiority was built on borrowed tech and media muscle—not on battlefield supremacy. The silence of Indian jets, the retreat of doctrine, and the unmistakable debris scattered across Kashmir tell a different story—one of strategic paralysis and tactical emb
Inspired by “How China helped Pakistan shoot down Indian fighter jets”
At 4:00 a.m., something extraordinary happened—not on the battlefield, but in the diplomatic shadows. China’s ambassador to Pakistan reportedly made an urgent call to Rawalpindi. Within hours, a long-prepared contingency went live. What followed wasn’t just an air skirmish—it was a revelation that shattered the myth of India’s air dominance.
The Indian Air Force had been assembling for days—nearly 180 aircraft concentrated on the western front. The goal was clear: repeat Balakot, break Pakistani defenses, and restore the image of strategic supremacy.
But the skies were no longer the same.
Why They Stayed 300 km Away
The Indian Air Force never crossed the threshold. They knew what waited for them beyond it:
Chinese J-10C fighters, sleek and silent
PL-15 missiles, Mach 5 hunters with over 300 km range
Erieye radars, linking every shooter into a single deadly nervous system
What India saw was not just Pakistani pilots—it was China’s entire air warfare doctrine stretching from Skardu to Pasni.
And the Rafales? They never saw it coming.
One Rafale—valued at over $250 million—was reportedly shot down mid-air. Another barely made it back. The Spectra EW system, designed to protect it, was overwhelmed. The PL-15 didn’t come with radar—it came with AI-guided silence.
This wasn’t a dogfight. It was an ambush.
The Pakistani Air Force, aided by Chinese targeting satellites and AWACS, executed a sensor-fusion kill. The Rafales never got a lock, never even saw their adversary. When the missiles hit, it was already over.
And India knew: if one Rafale can fall, so can five.
That’s why the fleet was grounded.
That’s why they stay 300 km away from the border.
Not because they lack courage—but because they now lack certainty.
Strategic Embarrassment
The implications are enormous. India’s prestige weapon, the Rafale, fell to a Chinese missile fired by a Pakistani jet. That’s not just a tactical failure—it’s a geopolitical message.
Even Bloomberg wrote it: this is a live demonstration of Chinese-Pakistani integrated warfare.
Western analysts are stunned. French defense contracts are rattled.
China, meanwhile, is watching quietly… and smiling.
The Game Has Changed
This isn’t 2019. This isn’t Balakot.
India now knows that any venture into Pakistani airspace invites a death trap orchestrated by J-10Cs, PL-15s, and Pakistani resolve.
So they stay back.
Grounded by fear.
Blinded by radar.
And humiliated by silence.
“The Indian pilot didn’t fail from lack of skill.
He failed inside a battlefield he couldn’t see—
built by satellites, linked by sensors, and executed by machines.”
In May 2025, the game changed. India’s long-nurtured dream of aerial supremacy—anchored in the purchase of 36 Rafale jets, backed by the mythical Spectra EW suite and decades of French engineering—came crashing down over Kashmir.
It wasn’t a dogfight.
It wasn’t even a fair fight.
It was a doctrinal collapse, witnessed in real time by every military strategist across the globe.
The #Rafale was supposed to be untouchable. Its technology, unmatched. Its pilots, elite. But on that fateful day, it flew into a kill box it never saw. And never escaped.
The Lethal Kill Chain
China quietly stepped in—not in the way most Western analysts imagined.
There were no J-20s or war declarations.
There was a box. A network. A silent chain of observation and execution:
Saab Erieye AWACS patrolling silently
J-10C fighters flying in passive mode
PL-15E missiles—the export PL-15E, the domestic variant with over 300 km reach and Mach 5 speed—locked in and fired
The Rafale didn’t even know it was targeted until the missile was 50 km away.
At that speed, the Indian pilot had 9 seconds.
Not enough to react.
Not enough to survive.
Why the IAF Is Grounded
You don’t see the Indian Air Force over Kashmir anymore.
Why?
Because every time a fighter lifts off, Pakistani radars pick it up.
Because the Erieye sees what Indian radars can’t.
Because the PL-15 launches from outside Rafale’s threat envelope.
Because the Rafale, once India’s silver bullet, has been turned into a $250 million sitting duck.
The IAF now flies 300 km behind its own borders.
Balakot 2.0? It will not happen. Not in this sky.
A Doctrinal Humbling
The world is watching the fallout.
Dassault Aviation’s share price remains stagnant.
Chinese defense stocks—AVIC, ALD Chengdu—are surging.
Because the battlefield was not decided in a dogfight.
It was decided by C4ISR supremacy—Command, Control, Communication, Computers, Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance.
Pakistan did not outgun India.
It out-networked it.
And India, stunned, grounded its birds.
India’s Pain, Pakistan’s Message
India invested in platforms. Pakistan invested in kill chains.
Modi’s doctrine was: buy dominance.
Reality proved: you must build dominance.
No Spectra system can counter a missile it never detects.
No EW suite can spoof a missile fed by satellite data.
No fighter jet can outrun the death it doesn’t see coming.
The sky has changed.
This is not the end of air combat.
It is the beginning of silent, invisible, unanswerable air dominance.