The Horde and the 1st bullet proof vest.

F

FreeAsia2000

Junior Member
Ok how would you rate the Mameukes as an army

In one of the decisive battles of history Baybars defeats the Mongols. It is the first setback suffered by the family of Genghis Khan in their remorseless half century of expansion. This battle defines for the first time a limit to their power. It preserves Palestine and Syria for the Mameluke dynasty in Egypt. Mesopotamia and Persia remain within the Mongol empire.

Baybars and his successors: AD 1260-1517

Baybars is ruthless - in the best Mameluke tradition. Seized as a boy from the Kipchak Turks, north of the Caspian, he has been brought to Egypt as a slave. His talents have enabled him to rise to high command in the Mameluke army. In 1260, the year of his great victory at Ayn Jalut, he defeats and kills his own Mameluke sultan. He is proclaimed in his place by the army.

During his reign of seventeen years Baybars crushes the Assassins in their last strongholds in Syria, drives the crusaders from Antioch, and extends the rule of Egypt across the Red Sea to control the valuable pilgrim cities of Mecca and Medina.


In exercising this extensive rule, Baybars takes the precaution of pretending that he does so on behalf of an Abbasid refugee from the ruins of Baghdad - whom he acclaims as the caliph. His many successors maintain the same fiction. These Mameluke sultans are not a family line, like a traditional dynasty. They are warlords from a military oligarchy who fight and scheme against each other to be acclaimed sultan, somewhat in the manner of the later Roman emperors.

But they manage to keep power in their own joint hands until the rise of a more organized state sharing their own Turkish origins - the Ottoman empire.

The Ottomans, cautious about Mameluke military prowess, tackle other neighbouring powers such as the Persians before approaching Egypt. But in 1517 the Ottoman sultan, Selim I, reaches the Nile delta. He takes Cairo, with some difficulty, and captures and hangs the last Mameluke sultan.

Mameluke rule, spanning nearly three centuries, has been violent and chaotic but not uncivilized. Several of Cairo's finest mosques are built by Mameluke sultans, and for a while these rulers maintain Cairo and Damascus (500 miles apart) as twin capitals. A pigeon post is maintained between them, and Baybars prides himself on being able to play polo within the same week in the two cities.
Click to expand...

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


or what about Jalal al-Din Mingburnu ?
 
Last edited:
R

Red Guard

Junior Member
does anyone EVER realize where mongolians live ( which i really favour people call chinese at the time hans) they do not have silk? I come from north china and i don't even have silkworm and the tree in my area. silk is a famous product of hangzhou, which is in the province of zhejiang(if i didn't remember it wrong, i always got confused about the south provinces). and it was the capital city of dynasty of Song (south song). Silks are not produced in north china, then how could mongolians use silk as an armour? besides. silk is one of the symble for rich people. not everyone would afford it. and it used as a military gear? i do't think so. actually, according to my knowledge, the "cloth armour" was not out until Qin dynasty, well i could be wrong, as i am not in this kind of studies. in Song dynasty, armour was still as flaks of metal, so i don't really think it's the case......
besides, i think one of the most important reason the mongals would win the war is because the fast attack tactics and the bravery of the soldiers. cavalry, speed is the key of the war. it's pretty much like blitz.....so.....well...i could be wrong, that's just what i think.


and when mongals were attacking europe, the europeans (allow me to laugh at them...) wear heavy armours as..knights, which i heard they would feel from the horseback, and can't even get back then, so they just got stepped to death under the horseshoes of mongals. as mongals they are all light cavalries, what do you call them...hussars? or..rangers? they wear light and they ride light, they move fast. so with the speed they could easily assult the foot soldiers. cut them into pieces and let mongal foot soldiers take care the rest.
 
Last edited:
T-U-P

T-U-P

The Punisher
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
you're getting the timeline wrong. mongols invaded china first, then go west to invade all the other countries, so when they battled out the persians etc. they already have china, therefore they have the source to silk.

also, IMO they did not intend to use silk as an armour, but rather as one of the many layers of clothing that they wore. but that's just my interpretation. as for classes, you have to remember that when the mongols established the Yuan dynasty, mongols are the higher ranks while hans belong to the lower rank therefore the mongol soldiers would still be treated as the "higher" class people.
 
R

Red Guard

Junior Member
ja i know, but he also mentioned when they were fighting with hans, right?
what i am saying is, silk production is a very expensive process and it took a long time, lots of people, so many things to produce. i don't think it would be part of the army gear, because....there were just not ENOUGH of it!!!
 
J

JZXT

New Member
Red Guard said:
ja i know, but he also mentioned when they were fighting with hans, right?
what i am saying is, silk production is a very expensive process and it took a long time, lots of people, so many things to produce. i don't think it would be part of the army gear, because....there were just not ENOUGH of it!!!
Click to expand...

It is more common than you think, much like cotton today. Silk production is expensive today. The sericulture consisted of raising the silk worms, main goal is to get the worm to make the cacoon. So it is growing the mulberry tree variety and breeding the silk worm. It is a long process, just require people and China had a lot people. And if woven right, silk last a long time.

Sources for not enough sillk information?
 
rommel

rommel

Bow Seat
VIP Professional
MIGleader said:
the us is testing how to make spider silk. no progress yet, and it will be another decade before a prototype comes out.
Click to expand...

the really easy to make spider silk... go check the Quebec's proud in biotechnology, the Nexia Biotechnology Inc, they did a spidergoat that produce the spidersilk in the goat's milk and by the way, this project was partly funded by the US Army and the Canadian National Defence Departement, guess for what ??

Anyway, I'm offtopic... So, about the silk, I think that silk was not really worn in combat because it's unconfortable when you sweat into it, it don't absord the sweat like the cotton and I also think that silk does not keep the body's heat, so you'll get cold fast...
 
Last edited:
T-U-P

T-U-P

The Punisher
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
rommel said:
Anyway, I'm offtopic... So, about the silk, I think that silk was not really worn in combat because it's unconfortable when you sweat into it, it don't absord the sweat like the cotton and I also think that silk does not keep the body's heat, so you'll get cold fast...
Click to expand...
that's a bit contradicting, you're in a battle and you're sweating like hell and now you blame that silk does not keep the body heat, isn't that a good thing? it keeps you cool even in the heat of battle.
 
rommel

rommel

Bow Seat
VIP Professional
T-U-P said:
that's a bit contradicting, you're in a battle and you're sweating like hell and now you blame that silk does not keep the body heat, isn't that a good thing? it keeps you cool even in the heat of battle.
Click to expand...

well, i didn't say it correctly i think (sorry but i'm a french-canadian) so i'll try to reformulate what i said, if i know how...
 
P

patriot

New Member
From what i know, the Mongols don't know how to make silk either do they make anything else. All they know is how to make arrows and bows, and small swords. China was the only nation that make silk and export it around the world at the time. The price of silk was also expensive like gold. So, why weren't China the one having those silk-armors but poor Mongols. I don't think they have enough money to buy those silk:china:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top