The Future Of Vertical aviation.

Equation

Lieutenant General
Agreed 100%. I feel a AEW role is possible as well...and critical. They have already been looking at it, as you know.

For me, for the US, the future of vertical aviation (outside of more helos) is summed up by these two pictures:

f-35b-03.jpg


wasp0.jpg


I believe over the next 10 years my prediction will be proven accurate. Those two aircraft are going to make a huge difference as they are produced in numbers and as their various variants (particularly for the Osprey) are produced and also introduced.

I wonder why the US Army doesn't use the Osprey's? I like it, it has so many potentials and use. Yes the old Chinook is good but getting obsolete as the years goes by.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
There are three stated reasons why the UsArmy is dejecting the V22
First. protection Ch47 has three MG's too Osprey's one ( the belly mounted MG is more trouble then it's actually worth.)
second the Army and Marines Hot and High Demands are different and Osprey was built for the Marines demands.
Third. The Army feels It's heavy lifter should pull double duty as a rescue platform and due too
"The V-22’s “excessive” rotor down wash makes it impractical to use a hoist to lift people onboard, ruling out the Osprey for rescues at high altitudes where it couldn’t land,"
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A fourth reason is also likely, That being that When the marines finalized the design of the v22 they Used the CH46 Sea Knight's Cargo bay as there basis, The Army's Ch47 Chinook has a Larger Cargo bay. This causes problems as the Army based all it's rapid mobility units with internally transportable vehicles ( like the Ranger Land Rover Defender's around the CH47 bay So replacing there largest lifter means replacing there entire fleet of ITV's with smaller platforms. Where the Marines have the Larger CH53E as a Super heavy lifter helicopter and can Cheat too some degree by having a few larger ITV. The Army's big boy lifter helicopter is the CH47.
I think it likely that the JMR Heavy platform will be required too have a larger cargo box then the CH47 but that's in the future.
 
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delft

Brigadier
TerraN_EmpirE shows some fascinating compromises in the design of V-22.
For a sea based aircraft say with half the weight of V-22, I wonder if a tilt wing aircraft with contra-rotating propellers would be useful. It can have a higher disk loading for the same power loading because of the increased efficiency of contra-props. By turning the wing down rather than up it can reduce the total height and so fit in a CV hangar. It would be well fitted to take off overloaded over a ski ramp.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Would that not demand a pusher style prop rather then a conventional style? other then in forms like Hiller VZ-1 Pawnee I am not sure any one as tried a rotor that close too the deck. or on a Tilt wing I wonder as too the safety as well.
 

delft

Brigadier
I meant to turn the wing down only to reduce the height for stowage under deck. For STOL the wing would be turned up say 30 Deg., for VTOL obviously about 90 deg.
Btw, about rotors close to the deck, what about the Do-29, see
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.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
I was not aware of it. and I only realized later what you meant. The trouble with tilt wings is that when the wing is angled for hover and take off the Wing can act as a Sail against cross winds this means control becomes an issue as they could cause the aircraft too move in a uncontrolled manor. that wing surface would also create more drag in your Stol ski jump take off. Where a Tilt rotor would generate a superior angle of attack in such a take off.

One thing you did remind me of with the DO 29 was the Hybrid Tandem Rotor from Bell textron It tilts it's wings by about 25*s and then tilts it's rotors by another 5*s or so the concept went They never went too demonstrator with it though and I only read about it once.
 

delft

Brigadier
None such aircraft has been yet successful so it clearly isn't easy.
For the STOL take off think perhaps of something like the Bv-144, a German design that was flown in France in 1946. It increased the wing angle of incidence by 11 Deg. The use of a tubular spar as used in that aircraft seems very attractive.
My 30 Deg. was a mistake.
For VTOL: perhaps you would fold the wings as usual with carrier borne aircraft? At any rate such an aircraft will have a high wing loading, so a small wing.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
that varies based on configuration the C3/E2 for example folds it's outer wings via rotating and then back where most fighters are just up and over well the osprey rotates them. there is no one fixed answer
 

delft

Brigadier
that varies based on configuration the C3/E2 for example folds it's outer wings via rotating and then back where most fighters are just up and over well the osprey rotates them. there is no one fixed answer
Fold the wing as fit for purpose, to reduce the effect of the wind on the aircraft.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Full-Scale Mock-Up Of Army Light Tactical Helo Concept On Display
BY EVAN SWEETMAN, C4ISR JOURNAL
Published: 7 Oct 14:47 EDT (18:47 GMT)
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Sikorsky is showing its concept for the next Light Tactical Helicopter (LTH) for the U.S. Army.
The Sikorsky X2 Technology Light Tactical Helicopter on display Oct. 7 during the annual AUSA conference. ( SHEILA VEMMER / STAFF)

The X2 LTH is designed to replace both the Cobra and Little Bird helicopters, in addition for use by Special Forces. A full-scale model is on display outside the Washington Convention Center at AUSA 2009.

The X2's ability to reach a top speed of 250 knots means it is a prime candidate for a V-22 Osprey escort, said Jim Kagdis, program manager, Sikorsky Advanced Programs.

"Currently, the Cobra helicopter on an escort mission has to leave before the V-22, or the V-22 has to fly at slower speeds so the Cobra can keep up," he said. "The X2 will be able to fly at the same speed as the V-22 and still offer full support."

Sikorsky is also planning to offer a retractable refueling boom on the X2, increasing range and coverage during an escort mission.

The size of the X2 LTH concept allows for six passengers with 2 pilots, making it a good option for special operations forces. Sikorsky is also considering a forward mounted gun under the nose of the aircraft, along with the ability to hang gun pods from hard points on the wings, allowing the X2 to provide close air support for special ops. Also, lowered rotor noise will help it get into a drop zone undetected.

"Because it will cruise using the propeller, we can reduce the speed of the main rotor, making it quieter," Kagdis said.
Defence news
And look Picture!
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aerospace daily and defense report
Kiowa Replacement Plan Surprises Industry

Oct 13, 2011




By Graham Warwick

Industry says it is ready to respond if the U.S. Army proceeds with plans for flight evaluations, as early as April next year, of potential off-the-shelf replacements for its Bell OH-58 Kiowa Warrior armed scout helicopter.

Announcement of plans for a flight demonstration came as a surprise to manufacturers, who were waiting for the Army to release the results of a two-phase analysis of alternatives (AoA) for its Armed Aerial Scout (AAS) requirement.

AgustaWestland, Bell, Boeing and EADS North America say they will field aircraft if the Army proceeds with the demonstration, but contenders Sikorsky and AVX Aircraft will not be in a position to participate as their aircraft are still on the drawing board.

The recently competed AoA, the results of which have not been released, determined a new-start program was required. But in the face of deficit-driven budget pressures, the Army “has taken an appetite suppressant. We cannot afford a new start,” says Maj. Gen. Tim Crosby, Army program executive officer for aviation.

Instead, the Army will look at what is available between an OH-58D service life extension program (SLEP) as the “minimum acceptable” baseline and the full AAS requirement. “What can we do with the scout we have today, or can we field a COTS [commercial off-the-shelf] solution that gets close [to the AAS requirements]?” Crosby asks.

Crosby is seeking $8.7 million in funding from the Army to conduct the demonstration. “That assumes five vendors,” he says. Bell says it will be ready with its Block 2 upgrade of the OH-58D, Boeing will field the AH-6i, EADS North America the AAS-72X, and AgustaWestland says it will participate with either the AW119 or AW109. But AVX and Sikorsky confirm they will not be able to field aircraft.

The planned demonstration will not be a fly-off or a source selection, Crosby cautions. Instead, the results will be used to refine the guidance already provided by the AoA. The goal of the flight demonstration is “to make an informed decision, and not make it solely on PowerPoint presentations,” he says.

“We believe a COTS system can meet a substantial portion of the requirement,” Crosby says. But the question intended to be answered by the demonstration is whether any capability offered above the baseline OH-58D SLEP “is worth the investment when we will have to decrement something else to afford it,” he says.

Crosby describes the demonstration as “come as you are. If you don’t have an aircraft, you don’t get to play.” But industry does not yet know what the Army wants to evaluate. A request for information is expected to be released within a couple of weeks, providing more detail.

None of the available aircraft exactly meets the Army’s requirements, and Sikorsky is hoping it will be given a chance to present flight-test data from the X2 technology demonstrator and simulations of the S-97 Raider, which is scheduled to fly in 2014.

AVX says it is continuing design work on its coaxial-rotor and ducted-fan modification of the OH-58D in the belief that the Army will follow the demonstration with an open competition to replace the Kiowa Warrior.

Whether or not there is a follow-on competition will depend on how the results of the demonstration refine the AoA guidance, Crosby indicates. “If the analysis proves out, we will go immediately into a competitive environment. If not, then we are budgeted to do the [OH-58D] SLEP as planned.”
 
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