Taliban Strategy in Afghanistan

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Actually conquering Iran would improve the situation in Afghanistan because of another supply route. Pakistan is unlikely to pose too much of a problem for the US because the US is still the dominant power and China has just a fraction of the US power, let alone the power of the US led alliance.
It is true that the US allies disagree on the idea of being able to convert Afghanistan by continued military presence and see no more goals to fulfill through occupation. The original idea of hunting down al Qaida in their strongholds and toppling the Taliban gouvernment have long been fulfilled. Problem is that the Afghani gouvernment structure in power seems to be a failure that won't cure as long as there is such a strong military back-up that saves them from their own irresponsibility.

I take it that by irresponsibility, you mean corruption?

Funnily enough, guess who corrupted the Afghan government
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
?

As for the money, iIt was muttered only sotto voce at the Kabul embassy that cash-filled briefcases were regularly handed to new government ministers and warlords on "our side". Even nice Mr So-and-So, who spoke such good English and presented so well on TV, was on the take. Today, the only surprise is that we seem so shocked at the corruption of the Karzai government, given that we helped corrupt it.

The truth was that the allies were not creating a new democratic Afghanistan. Wwe had instead joined one side in a civil war that had raged for decades, has not ceased despite the allied presence, and will resume with full force once the western forces depart. It seems astonishing now that we were so wilfully naive. It all made such good sense at the time.

We entered Afghanistan and tried to make it comply with our fantasy, ignorant of its already complex realities. We occupied only small pieces of the country but declared that we had vanquished all of it. We constructed a new "democratic" order – but excluded those most likely to oppose it while including the brutish and corrupt (and then we corrupted them some more).
 

solarz

Brigadier
Or your posts demonstrates a lack of understanding Western thought. What you claim I misunderstood is actually implied in my posts. People rather don't discuss subjects that are self-evident and I said nowhere that these acts are morally justified. You have some serious mindset issues that make you read things that are not written.
You don't seem to understand modern conquest. It's about creating compatible structures and to a lesser degree advantageous positions. Modern conquest is more about robbing intellectual property and securing alignment of supply sources. Controlling the whole Persian Gulf again, would give the US a massive leverage against any competitor. If you calculate the investment of wars against Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran in comparison to a war with China that will not be able to be a peer competitor with the Persian Gulf under US control, then this whole mess makes lots of sense. Read Brzezinski on the subject. Problem is that the US wants to push this plan, her allies have their own plans.
The Taliban were legitimized by having the best organized armed group thanks to the ISI and lots of warlords decides to join them rather than oppose them. But the Taliban were very Pashtu, so there was resistance in the north that lacked a similarly efficient organization. Now we have these disorganized nitwits as Afghan gouvernment powered by the CIA and with inflated numbers of armed men of questionable fighting value. Afghanistan is currently an example of how not to run things, but it is one out of many examples of failed and successful operations. As long as drones hover in the sky, the Taliban can't return to their former position of power because Afghanistan is a treacherous ground for everyone. That's the reason why all but the traditional monarchy will be doomed and it is very expensive to make Americans understand that. Iraq and Afghanistan enable operations against Iran that is the main target.
Please tell me how China wants to be a peer competitor after the US secured these geopolitical positions?

You really should learn to use paragraphs, it would make your rambling a bit easier to understand.

Are you seriously claiming that the US is "securing" Iraq and Afghanistan???

One of the biggest reasons China has emerged as a "superpower" is because of the last decade of American military adventurism!
 
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


We've talked about how IEDs and mines are wreaking havoc upon NATO forces. However, those are obviously insufficient by themselves, as the Taliban does carry out attacks with fighters.

In the latest attack on Kabul, the Taliban sent out 30-some suicide fighters. Judging from the report, it's difficult to see what impact, if any, resulted from this attack.

So why do they carry out these attacks? What's the purpose? Just to show that they can? Does the Taliban even have an effective military strategy, aside from "waiting for NATO to leave"?

---------- Post added at 11:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:47 AM ----------

oops, this should probably be in the World Armed Forces forum.

actually i beg to differ
it's a bad news for NATO, considering the taliban are using a more organized training and method now, no matter how ineffective they seem in the beginning.
earn enough experience, and NATO will find themselves dealing with a bigger threat than they'd have wished. it's never a good thing that your enemies are improving and being even more organized and structure. i even speculate there are spies who are trained to absorb NATO training who are dormant within the afghan military as we speak...or otherwise even assisted by pakistanis?
 

CottageLV

Banned Idiot
This is just the essence of the game of world powers. HUge military industries have to be fed, elections have to be won, regional presence must be maintained, and all of these can only be achieved through means of military actions.
 

Riley103

Just Hatched
Registered Member
[Afghan Taliban says rehearsed attack for two months - Yahoo! News Canada[/url]

We've talked about how IEDs and mines are wreaking havoc upon NATO forces. However, those are obviously insufficient by themselves, as the Taliban does carry out attacks with fighters.

In the latest attack on Kabul, the Taliban sent out 30-some suicide fighters. Judging from the report, it's difficult to see what impact, if any, resulted from this attack.

So why do they carry out these attacks? What's the purpose? Just to show that they can? Does the Taliban even have an effective military strategy, aside from "waiting for NATO to leave"?

---------- Post added at 11:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:47 AM ----------

oops, this should probably be in the World Armed Forces forum.

Thanks you for the post.
 

delft

Brigadier
@Kurt
If you look at your old school atlas you might think that occupying Iran would solve a lot of problems. The reality would be very different. Conquering Iran would be very much more difficult than conquering Iraq and Afghanistan together. Which the US didn't, they were "conquered" separately ( Look at plawolf's reference to the Guardian article about the measure to which Afghanistan was conquered ). Besides the US Army is exhausted from the wars against Iraq and Afghanistan.
Assuming Iran conquered you are confronted by an infrastructure that cannot provide for the huge amounts of supplies the US Army needs: ports, roads, railways just lack the necessary capacity.
Then there are the political considerations. Russia is happy to see the Northern Distribution Network because it earns money from it, it encourages the US to remain in the Afghanistan quackmire and it enables the Russians to close the Network when the US do something stupid. Besides the US credit will not survive the beginning of another war costing $1b per month or more and China is now in a position to take over as leader of the world financial system. Not willingly, it's much to early, but if it needs to be done it can be done.

@CottageLV
The US built a Vice-Royal Palace in Baghdad rather than an embassy and set in on a diplomatic presence of some 18 000, many of them non-US mercenaries to protect the diplomats and the regular convoys with food and other supplies from Kuwait as well as 50 000, well perhaps 30 000, military trainers and supporters. But Iraq wouldn't agree to give the US military immunity from prosecution for any crimes they might commit - so many crimes have already been committed that no Iraqi parliament, however corrupt, might be brought to accept this immunity. So the military trainers all left last December. And the Iraqi government didn't allow the scale of convoys envisaged so now the embassy is forced to buy its food in Baghdad. This was all treated in another thread about the Middle East.

Ambassador Bhadrakumar publishes today a blog post about financing the Afghan army after the departure of the ISAF forces:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Russian hub for NATO’s Afghan transit

The two-day conference of the foreign and defence ministers of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization [NATO] which ended in Brussels on Thursday formally called on China, amongst other countries, to help finance Afghan security forces, which is estimated to cost 4 billion dollars annually. “We would welcome financial contributions from Russia, China and other countries to ensure a strong, sustainable Afghan security force beyond 2014″, secretary general Anders Fogh Rasumssen told reporters.

The aid appeal is primarily intended to ward off growing Russian demand for its inclusion in the NATO’s planning sessions on Afghanistan. But China has been singled out for reference. Beijing’s reaction will be interesting to watch. Seems unlikely that China will want to identify with the NATO’s residual war in Afghanistan.
The Chinese assessment of Afghan realities are very down-to-earth. The Global Times featured this week an interview with a prominent think tanker, Li Wei, who is the director of the Institute of Security and Strategic Studies at Beijing. Li’s candid assessment is that the rosy pictures by the NATO and western intelligence is for propaganda purposes and for raising the morale of the coalition forces; Taliban enjoy support among Afghan people and have infiltrated the state organs including the security forces.
Li even cast doubt on the NATO sticking to its withdrawal plans: “The Afghan government has yet to gain enough power to fight the Taliban on its own. Should NATO troops withdraw from Afghanistan, the situation will get much more complex… The Afghan government is too weak to maintain stability and still largely depends on NATO to fight the insurgents.” By the way, Institute of Security and Strategic Studies comes under the China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations, which is one of China’s most influential think tanks affiliated with China’s top intelligence agency, the Ministry of State Security. (Transcript of Li’s interview is here.)
A major difference between the Russian and Chinese approaches is that while Moscow has woven the Afghan question into the broad matrix of its ‘reset’ of ties with the United States, Beijing’s approach is intrinsic to the Afghan situation. Thus, at the Brussels meeting yesterday, Russia offered the use of Ulyanovsk as the transit hub for two-way ferrying of war materials, and NATO accepted the offer gleefully. On its part, NATO is accommodating a Russian representative at the alliance’s Chicago summit in May although Vladimir Putin may not attend.
Posted in Diplomacy, Military.

Tagged with Afghanistan, NATO, Taliban, Ulyanovsk.

By M K Bhadrakumar – April 20, 2012
Btw my Dutch paper, together with other sources I read, consider the 130 000 Afghan soldiers that will have to be got rid of to make the cost of supporting the Afghan government and army "acceptable" to the donor countries a valuable contribution to the strength of the Taliban.
In the end peace and economic development is the way to go and that means intensive economic connection with Pakistan, Iran and China.
And that is not compatible with an occupied Iran.
 

Kurt

Junior Member
It's the Brzezinski-doctrine the US enacts at the moment. It does include much more than Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan, but Lybia and Syria as well. Brzezinski is the guy who believes to have engineered the downfall of the Soviet Union by trapping them in Afghanistan, so he has many kudos and is believed to be a great strategist.
I share the German point of view that there are wars we should not be involved with because our goal is security and not dominance, but I hope to understand the US gouvernment POV and be able to present it.
It's always been part of US warfighting to drop bombs and money. Some people were corrupted to the bone, others weren't. It's about whether you are something on your own other than a clown that gets cash stuffed into his pockets.
The current US debt is a bogus problem because it results from a collapse in the high income taxing and wealth distribution that previously ensured US economic growth and dominance. The less equal wealth is distributed, the less internal economic growth there is.
The trade balance or imbalance is irrelevant in an economy as long as the internal economy profits from the increased economic efficiency and focuses on most profitable products. Thus you have to look at the trade derived growth and how this compares to the money spent and received from the external trade.
In my opinion, the US runs a pretty good system that would enable them to secure higher wages and living standards by trade deficit than the export oriented German and Japanese economy. For Germany, I strongly favour shifting away from export to internal growth(within Europe) and higher efficiency and wages for localized services while our science has to concentrate on giving us a cutting edge with a top standard globalized economic subsystem.
By comparison, the Taliban are only a nuisance for the US, but they will likely stay one, even if they can't win.
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
Is there currently a deadline to pull out like the one in Iraq? I mean a solid deadline.

I understand that people say US hasn't really pulled out in Iraq, since there are still more than 50,000 active troops there under the title of "logistics and training" personnel. But this shows that US cannot openly operate in the name of the military, but rather through the puppet government and with the help of black hands, like those of blackwater (or Xe, or academi).

---------- Post added at 01:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:19 PM ----------



Don't want to sound light hearted, but this is nothing in East Asia. We got nothing but lots of people. If a million die today, I got another billion.

it's not true .. your life may be cheap, but not necessarily for others, including in East Asia
 
Last edited:

no_name

Colonel
This is just the essence of the game of world powers. HUge military industries have to be fed, elections have to be won, regional presence must be maintained, and all of these can only be achieved through means of military actions.

Don't think the ROC is counting on tanks to match PRC's new tanks. Those old tanks will be used against landing forces at the beach by shooting fletchet rounds. Then the ones not taken out will immediately retreat inland to block key points and serve as mobile firestations. Taiwan roads are not strong enough for the type 99 and so the PLA will maybe have to use type 96 if a war happens.
 

Kurt

Junior Member
To better explain my position. The US wants a major structural shift in the extended Middle East in order to cement her position as leading power after the Cold War for the whole 21st century and the money and blood are yet peanuts in comparison to the magnitude of the goal. Russia and China are still too dependant on US goodwill for their economies, so they won't pose a serious threat or even outright support the Taliban to the degree such acts were common throughout the Cold War era. The Taliban are a nuisance for enacting this plan of a strategic control of important parts of earth's surface and the current US strategy is to find a way to remedy the earlier decision of not including this best organized group of the ongoing Afghan civil war.
Iran is a centerpiece of this vision of a new world order of US power in the 21st century and while the costs look impressive, they pale in comparison to the revenue deficits derived from taxing the rapidly growing wealth of the rich US citizens less and less.
 
Top