Sukhoi passes into obselence as the 50th Raptor is delivered.
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Yes, the difference is the Raptor's radar is active. the Spirit's radar doesn't shoot anything, but the Raptor's do.BrotherofSnake said:Actually, the B-2 uses a AN/APQ-181 radar. The radar uses a passive, two dimensionally scanned antenna. It is the stealthiest radar in the world and it allows the B-2 to penetrate sophisticated air defenses while searching for targets.
I heard a Raptor can go much faster, but I guess they governed the engines or something, like what they did on the Abrams.
Two stages of burners next to each other? I doubt so. That'll waste a lot of fuel.Akula said:
Wait then, what's that chamber in the middle of the engine then? Should've been the internal chamber of the turbofan, where the 1st burn is, but no inlets.
The engine indeed is more of gasturbine. Works more like a ramjet with fans to allow self-start.
you just dissed F-22. This is going to be a truly stealth plane. It was designed to have < 0.1 m^2 RCS. I read a number 0.0027. Just for reference, the RCS of su-27/30 is probably 10 m^2.sumdud said:Hmmm..........
In an A2A battle, I'll take Aluka's words. It's relatively hard to detect a F22 w/ a ground radar since the plane's radar wave are going forward, and unless you are lucky enough to get the plane at an angle, your waves will simply deflect off the plane.
But in an A2A battle, the F-22's radar is on.(Note that the F-117 and B2 have no radars onboard.) And I am 99.999...999....% sure that the Raptor carries an active radar, you can detect the plane head on by receiving the Raptor's waves. And if you've noticed the back of the F-22, it isn't very stealthy, rather curved, meaning that if you are on its tail or on top of it, you can probably detect the plane conventionally.
It is disturbing to me that while the F-22 can achieve Supercruise(Flying faster than the speed of sound without the use of an afterburner), it can only achieve Mach 1.8, while the F-15 with a less powerful engine can do 2.5. But I guess I need some physics review here?
The manuverability of the Raptor is above average. It is better than that of some planes, but definitely behind that of the Flankers and Fulcrums. The Berkut, off course, I believe, has maybe the most mauverability w/o TVC. It and the MiG-35, Su-37/MKI definitely grabs top 3.
Yandex?
The Flankers and Fulcrums are in no way copies. Their engine intakes alone are unique.(The only fighter in service to feature dual, spacedivided under-intakes.) And as for the Frogfoot, anyone smart enough can think of the design!!!!!
I thought the MiG-1.42/1.44 was only a demostrator.
As for manuverability of the raptor being averaged? What are you smoking? The lone fact that it has supercruise capability should tell you something. Most of the numbers on F-22 are classified right now. And it has TVC on its engine. Although its 2-d, but that's still TVC.
BrotherofSnake
Junior Member
2D nozzles are fine with the roll rate of the Raptor.
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wait wait wait a second.
Let's get this radar issue out of the way. Passive doesn't mean the radar doesn't emit, same with active. It's a term to distinguish T/R modules' abilities.
Also, NO CURRENT RWR/RADAR/ECM SUIT CAN ACTUALLY DETECT, LET ALONG PIN POINT, THE F-22. Remember, that thing is using spread spectrum technique (more like SST on crack), and it can do that because of
1) insane processing power
2) the 1500 element AESA
you CANNOT detect what you cannot process. It would all just be like background radiation to you until the AMRAAM goes active, then you're screwed because the missile hasn't bled enough energy for you to shake it.
EDIT:
which leads to another interesting topic, the anti stealth radars.
The Kolchuga and Vera (Vera being the system the Czechs denied to the Chinese and is the successor of the Kolchuga) are PASSIVE survellance (sp) systems. They require a rebounded signal. Now that might very well work on things like the F-117, which, AFAIK, employs all aspect geometric stealth and not much else (plus RAM and IR shielding), it probably won't work on the F-22, because the RCS is just too damned small.
The rumored Chinese system, which uses "cellphone" waves, might have a better chance.
Let's get this radar issue out of the way. Passive doesn't mean the radar doesn't emit, same with active. It's a term to distinguish T/R modules' abilities.
Also, NO CURRENT RWR/RADAR/ECM SUIT CAN ACTUALLY DETECT, LET ALONG PIN POINT, THE F-22. Remember, that thing is using spread spectrum technique (more like SST on crack), and it can do that because of
1) insane processing power
2) the 1500 element AESA
you CANNOT detect what you cannot process. It would all just be like background radiation to you until the AMRAAM goes active, then you're screwed because the missile hasn't bled enough energy for you to shake it.
EDIT:
which leads to another interesting topic, the anti stealth radars.
The Kolchuga and Vera (Vera being the system the Czechs denied to the Chinese and is the successor of the Kolchuga) are PASSIVE survellance (sp) systems. They require a rebounded signal. Now that might very well work on things like the F-117, which, AFAIK, employs all aspect geometric stealth and not much else (plus RAM and IR shielding), it probably won't work on the F-22, because the RCS is just too damned small.
The rumored Chinese system, which uses "cellphone" waves, might have a better chance.
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I told that i made my judgements from the picture. Ofcourse i could be wrong, especially considering the fact that picture was painted by the hand.
Also after looking at AL-31F i take my words on ompressors clever shape back. AL-31F has the same shape.
For those of you, who doesn't know, how turbofan works i've made a simple drawing:
Lowpressure compressor (fan) is blue, highpressure compressor if green, turbine - yellow, combustion chamber - red, afterburner is orange. As you can see, two-circuit scheme allows air into the rear of engine to "feed" afterburner. Now look at F-119 drawing - the main flow goes through turbine.
Did you read info? Key characteristics are classified. And this is not an ass, you see the picture, and it does not have an afterburner on it. It's also not very clever just to say crap about others without any ideas of yours.
By referring to division degree i refer to the parameter that is <air charge through outer circuit>/<air charge through first lowpressure stage>. Probably it's bypass ratio, i do not know western therminology. And if engine has an afterburner it does not make much difference, this parameter is still much lower, then of majority 4gen turbofans (judging by the picture once again).
Afterburner is a second stage.
Its combustion chamber. Air inlets are tiny holes in the chamber (you can't see them on picture), it's made to make more efficient diffusion between air and fuel.
Also after looking at AL-31F i take my words on ompressors clever shape back. AL-31F has the same shape.
For those of you, who doesn't know, how turbofan works i've made a simple drawing:
Lowpressure compressor (fan) is blue, highpressure compressor if green, turbine - yellow, combustion chamber - red, afterburner is orange. As you can see, two-circuit scheme allows air into the rear of engine to "feed" afterburner. Now look at F-119 drawing - the main flow goes through turbine.
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bd popeye said:
I was not refering to you, of course, or to aluka either.
It is just that a lot of people around here make al sorts of claims and statements without checking anything.
I was in a grumpy mood and the should not have written anything. I am sorry bout the offensive language.
I did not talk about your post. I apologise if you got that impression.
It is just that some people around here (not you) are lazy and do not check anything. If discussing anything the known facts would be a good starting point.
For example: Claiming that the Raptor has short range. AFAIK ther are no hard facts on this, just guesstimates.
Ridiculing India for only buying su-30 not making their own copy. When in fact the indians have aquired a licence including full transfer of technology (according to Air International and a decent indian site called bharat-rakshak).
Nonetheless. i should not have made the offensive comment.
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who is ridiculing India for buying su-30mki? I think it's smart to do so. Clearly, LCA project is lagging big time. The systems that IAF is getting are very advanced.
As for that Indian site you talked about, it's a good site, but it tends to exagerate the performance of certain Indian systems.
As for that Indian site you talked about, it's a good site, but it tends to exagerate the performance of certain Indian systems.