What is with this fixation on the size of the J-20?? I thought many posters have presented convincing evidence that the J-20 is actually smaller than the Sukhoi family fighters (in satelite images where the J-20 sat side-by-side with other fighters including Sukhois), which have been thought to be some of the most agile fighters known to man. So size does not matter. And the current engine used by the J-20 is at least the same engine used by most of the Sukhoi fighters, again known to be very agile even with "less advanced engines". Some speculated that the J-20 might be using a highly modified version of the AL-31 engine. So let's drop the "size" / "engine" argument!
Let's also be clear that no one should be comparing the J-20 with either the F-22 or the T-50. There is simply no evidence whatsoever for anyone to compare. I don't think even the best experts in the world can do that comparison because no one in the world has the complete data on ALL 3 fighters. The only thing that most of the "non-anti-J-20" people are proposing is that there is no evidence to suggest the J-20 would be a dedicated striker/interceptor. That is all. The only thing that we can conclude from the available evidence is that the J-20 is a 5th gen stealth fighter. From what we know about how the PLA works, we can speculate with confidence that the J-20 should be a highly effective stealth fighter, based on how confident the PLA is about the J-20. We all know that the PLA is very careful/conservative about their weapons development. They will not let it roll out unless they are satisfied with their products. And we all know that they set a very bar for their new weapons because of their ambition and goals. And their past track record is consistent with this view. That is all we know.
With regard to whether different fighter lay-out could affect its stealth, I suggest that we give the Chinese fighter designers some benefit of the doubt. They should know better than most of us the armchair fighter designers. If they decided to stick with the current design after decades of research and development and billions of $$$ invested in the development, they should know what they are doing. At least they should have a better idea than most of us armchair fighter designers.
Let me say first off that I agree with you on the size/powerplant statement, that's a dog that's been beat to death, so 1 big one in your favor, and you are among Sino Defense most honest and honorable posters, and I will fully support your statement.
On point 2 that none of us is capable of making "observations" relating the J-20 to T-50 or F-22??? whut are you talking about??? to say their is "no evidence whatsoever for anyone to compare" is in fact in-accurate. As a research scientist where would you be if you didn't in fact compare things that are not completely understood, develop a hypothesis, sell that to your funders, and then set out to either prove, or disprove your theory??
There are several of us who have more than enough data/experience to make very cogent/accurate statements about each of these fighters and how they stack up against one another, I stand by my "clinical observations", and if I am proven to have been in-accurate, I correct my hypothesis and offer an apology. I have a "body of work" here on the Sino Defense Forum, I have worked very diligently to make accurate cogent observations on military aircraft in particular, and I will continue to do so, even though some would prefer we only post pretty pictures, Sino Defense does require that each picture or post contain an observation or commentary?? yes?
As to your third point? let me respond that the J-20 is China's first endeavor at developing a large stealthy fighter, how well they have done, how well they do, remains to be seen, to assume its a success is asking a lot? Here in the US we have a long history of innovative successful aircraft design, has anyone assumed the F-35 is a success because of that very successful history??? NO, they haven't, and no one is going to assume the J-20 is a success until it is in full production and populating fighter squadrons.
So please don't take offense, and yes I get annoyed at all the "stupid or even dishonest" things that get said about aircraft, ours, yours, Russian, UK, and on down the line, we just have to note who is accurate and fair, and who are "goofballs"?? my final illustration is completely off topic, while at the same time puts these "preliminary" assessments in perspective.
I assume you have a wife, I have a lovely, beautiful wife! really, I married her because she is gorgeous, smart, naïve, innocent, sweet, and I nick-named her the Honey Badger. Now how much did I know about her when I asked her to marry me??? you see where I am going don't you, I know a lot more about her than I did, BUT, she is a WOMAN, and I still don't really know "jack" about women?? That's why ALL airplanes are FEMALE, love em, cuddle em, give everything you own to get the prettiest one you can, but don't ever assume you know all there is to know?? EVER, because when you do, they sense that, and they will show you just how naïve you really are? you may all show this to your wives, girlfriends??? at your discretion, but don't show it to the Honey Badger, she would "kill me"!
I have SEVEN daughters, an EX Wife( the WARDEN), a lovely wife(Honey Badger), and I would hazard that our old sage BD would agree with me about women, no matter how much you know, or how much you think you can predict with accuracy their behavior, you don't know "jack", maybe that's what Vesicles was trying to say about the J-20???
Last edited: