state debt and how it works
- Thread starter Kurt
- Start date
Gold is a currencie too? heck, even eggs, bread and butter is a currencies - anything which can be traded with and represents a value is a currency.
What if gold priced drop in price in 2009? I mean, so did the USD in relation to the RMB or the CAD (I went shopping in the US during parity). Either way, your theory that exchange rates shows that the USD is strengthening is unsupported.
antiterror13
Brigadier
why you so upset ? ....well, check the fact before open your mouth otherwise it's showing how much you don't know
Before the crisis, CAD$ was worth more than US$, and slowly weakened due to US crisis (not Canadian crisis) and at the height of the crisis 1US$ roughly equal to 1.3 CAD$
http://www.advfn.com/p.php?pid=qkchart&symbol=FX^USDCAD
chart period 5 years
I wasn't the one who brought up Gold, I just responded to Lezt who brought up Gold.
btw ... also Oil price was above $100 a few months before the crisis and dropped to about $40
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Kurt
Junior Member
Dear In4ser,
I've been leading workers from Eastern Europe for example, these are great guys at being industrious, but many don't get the idea of organizing work more efficient. From my point of view this is a major factor in output performance for certain products. Another factor is your socialization with tools, including computers. If you grew up in an environment with less chances, you're not as familiar with these. In Germany for example we have a middle class that places great importance on education and the lower classes have a hard time to fill in the gap they have by diminished access to the same ressources, as well as by their social background to which the concepts behind it are alien.
I would never argue that there aren't products that the Chinese can't do better than the Germans who operated pretty many solar panel companies at low economic efficiency. In my opinion all nations will find products they can produce best with their wages, know-how and softskills. Narrowing down production to the wage per hour is the wrong approach because workers are part of production systems and different backgrounds give different results.
My personal point of view on future economics:
Concerning the education issue, you don't need so many years of study for everyone, but you need some to at least acquire capabilities to create products for which people will pay you worldwide or provide services for people with internationally sought after capabilities in your neighbourhood (that creates most of a nation's wealth).
So one approach could be a high value export created by people who are kept comfortable by well paid local catering. Such a system doesn't need a balance of trade, as long as foreign trade interaction bolsters the own economic well-being through increased economic efficiency (any trade deficit needs to be compensated by increased growth through economic efficiency instilled by trade). Such an economic system needs however popular support by providing enough chances to make a decent living.
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solarz
Brigadier
do you think US would devaluing its dollar when it's economic is booming
Irrelevant. The US would devalue its dollar when they feel the cost is worth the gain. Whether they'd be correct in that assessment is a whole other matter.
Equation
Lieutenant General
Kurt,
I like your assessment and positive outlook on the economy, but in reality in a real "open market" things don't turn out that way. Profits is the major goal and bottom line of course, therefore corporation goes to the best options to produce the same quality of goods with lower over head costs to increase profits and stock values for the company and shareholder, NOT the workers.
Allow me to give you a personal example, my father works at Goodman Manufacturing base here in Houston for 19 years and counting. At the time when he first worked there, it was a dream job for him and anyone else, working there. They get paid $18/hr, plus benefits such as medical and dental (even for their spouse), 4 free movie tickets at the end of every month, free Thanksgiving Day turkey, free Christmas Day hams (yes for everyone even part time employee). What does Goodman makes? They make air conditioner for residents and commercial. The CEO/ owner at the time was a great leader at running things and keeping profits at a descent at all times. Fast forward 15 later after the Mr. Goodman Sr. had passed away and the elder son took over the family business. To put it mildly, he suck as a both a leader and businessman. He took away half of the benefits that I described above, lower wages for new employees, and outsource a lot of the trucking and transportation to another company instead of an in house truckers. After two or three years the son sold the business to someone else (supposedly to foreign company) but retain the business name. As a result they cut wages and benefits even further, plus laying off another thousand workers that worked there for 3 - 7 years to reduced cost. New employees now gets paid $9.25/hr. with NO benefits or bonuses whats so ever. My dad was lucky because since he was one of the few experienced and older sheet metal presser at the assembly line he was exempt from the cuts. Now he is only one of a hand full of the older skilled workers there left. He told me the new guys takes awhile to teach and when they do work, they don't stay at the company for long. Well, sorry for the long story, but that's the reality of today's business (especially) manufacturing here in Ameri2)ca. Yes my father still works there for his current $15/hr. down from the previous $18, but he's happy and fortunate to have a job for a man his age (62).
Kurt
Junior Member
We both agree that this is a bad example of running a business. In Germany and German speaking countries, we have lots of small companies who are world leaders in certain fields and usually owned by families for generations. They grow up with an attitude towards their employes and the value of their capabilities. Of course, there are black sheep, but as you pointed out, these are unable to keep the inherited wealth.
On a different trajectory, workers have a perceived weakness in wage negotiations because the management has the concept of being able to outsource and promise the owners higher earnings. So far greed and snobish attitudes towards blue collar work were an obstacle to critical assessment, but on the long run a more carefully measured attitude towards these moves will pay off by selection of surviving companies. Inventing something like the kibbutz () might be a solution to set up new companies in the future that have a better idea of their know-how and softskills and do have the necessary financial power and individual drive to develop ideas (they do actually exist, during the German unification for example the workforces of some companies bought their own companies).
My outlook on how an economy should work and how it actually works is that I said we all should have wealth to live a good life. It works just the same with much less wealth at the moment, but it works and fittingly describes our circumstances. In my opinion, wealth is not so much about living in luxury, but in safety with the capability to try things and for this reason wealth has always been a very important drive for innovation and adaption of innovation.
The re-rise of Asia offers the capability to create a world of wealth and ideas. If we create widespread poverty by a widening scissor instead of common widespread wealth, we are going right into a Malthusian catastrophy. Our developmemnt of ideas inevitably slows down while the price of production degrades the stability of our ecological environment until an unforseen event leads to a devastating collapse.
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Equation
Lieutenant General
Kurt,
I wouldn't worry too much about the Malthusian catastrophe theory. The Earth is just way too big for everyone and capable of sustaining 14 billion human lives. It's the question of sharing it. Until terraforming of planets is invented, we all must abide by the rules of living and tolerating each other here on EARTH.
I wouldn't worry too much about the Malthusian catastrophe theory. The Earth is just way too big for everyone and capable of sustaining 14 billion human lives. It's the question of sharing it. Until terraforming of planets is invented, we all must abide by the rules of living and tolerating each other here on EARTH.
why you so upset ? ....well, check the fact before open your mouth otherwise it's showing how much you don't know
Before the crisis, CAD$ was worth more than US$, and slowly weakened due to US crisis (not Canadian crisis) and at the height of the crisis 1US$ roughly equal to 1.3 CAD$
http://www.advfn.com/p.php?pid=qkchart&symbol=FX^USDCAD
chart period 5 years
I wasn't the one who brought up Gold, I just responded to Lezt who brought up Gold.
btw ... also Oil price was above $100 a few months before the crisis and dropped to about $40
Why are you being defensive? Firstly understand what I am saying, I am saying that currencies exchange rates is not a good measure of the strength of a currency. I brought up gold as a reference. The actual exchange rate of gold to USD or USD to CAD is entirely moot as all I intend to show is that there are period of time which the USD is higher or lower to it's contemparies. You point that the CAD had been higher in the past exactly proves my point.
the second thing is, when did the crisis start? in reality there is no set date. The US automaker woes started in 2005, the subprime issue started in around 2008, the dubai financial crisis is 2007, the greece and italy national debt is now, the Chinese ghost town issues have been happening for atleast 3 years - and have not become a crisis yet. Which global financial crisis are you referring to?
My issue, really is, statistics is a double edged sword, it shows you somethings, but you can also choose the time, the index, the value, the modifiers to produce results consistent with what you are arguing. But it is fake.
Kurt
Junior Member
I don't worry about a Malthusian catastrophy every morning I wake up, but with the current state of development it's possible in many regions and it does constantly happen. Question is rather how long are others willing and able to help and avoid the constant catastrophies. We are on the verge of a climate change and the relocation of agricultural capabilities can cause major frictions to armed conflicts. History shows that in former times this was enough to make mighty empires collapse.