Southeast Asia's View of Japanese Occupation during WWII

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Ryz05

Junior Member
According to what I know Cambodia was colonized by France abut 90 years, nowadays, you still can find some antique French buildings which are more than 100 years old in Phnom Penh. The Japs came to Cambodia sometime before the end of WWII and chased the French out in the name of "to liberate Cambodia". They didn't do anything bad like what they did in China and other places. But according to what we understand is that it's not that "they didn't do anything bad" but it's "they hadn't done anything bad" then WWII ended and they got to go back home.
The Japanese would not harm them as long as the Cambodians did not object to their occupation. The Japanese were only interested in their natural resources, just like the French.

The French came back after the Japs had gone. Cambodia got independence in 9-Nov-1954, we did have a glorious time in the 1960s under the leading of King Norodom Sihanuk. But that's short life. In 1970, General Lol Nol backed by the US government led a coup and pull down King Norodom Sihanuk. Cambodia was drowned in civil wars since then, and the wars didn't end until the Paris Peace Agreement in 1991 and the Election in 1993. And today's Cambodia? I can simply say that "very bad".

General Lol Nol was a pro-American from what I've heard. I don't know much about King Norodom Sihanuk, except that he tried to overthrow the pro-American government afterwards. Other issues with Cambodia at the time include the rise of Communism with it culminating in the Khmer Rouge when many were killed because of their social class and family history. Vietnam then invaded trying to end the killing of Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge incursion on their territory.

So, Cambodia's situation today, uncle sam is to blamed though we understand that there are many other political reasons that led to the coup of 1970.

The US military did try to bomb Vietcong bases in Cambodia, and probably was involved in overthrowing the King. However, the US continues to provide funding to improve the country's economy, along with other developed countries and China. It was mainly the divide within Cambodia that led to the unrests.
 
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szbd

Junior Member
Could you plese explain this statement to my simple American mind? I was unaware that the US "in several instances continuing the plunder of resources and bloody suppression of local democratic movements".

Please give me some examples. thank you.

Let me share some Chinese views with you. What I'm gonna say is my summerization from the Chinese materials I read, from my point of view of course. But I hope this is an objective summerization of those materials.

The US's general policy towards south eastern asia (SEA) was decolonization. What US wanted was to peacefully transfer the power to the local elite group that close to western world. I call this group as capitalism group. There were also two other groups, populism and communism. Every country eventually became nationalism but there was a tough and long way to get to it.

What US desired was a global market based on sovereign states with free trading and coorperation to some extent, and US in the top superior position of course. So the best way was to let the capitalism get the power and maintain the country in a predictable and favarable manner, to guaranttee the efficiency of economic flow and political stability, in US's standard of course. Because capitalism group was easy to be influenced by US.

None of the groups was democratic in nature. Every group claims it want democracy, this means, given me a chance or a better chance to get the power. If you deny me with this chance, you are supressing democracy. But one a group got the power, then it's a different story.

Every group only consists of a certain amount of elites, while the majority of the people being neutral or change stance from time to time.

The top priority of US is communism must be eliminated. Unfortunately at the beginning of postwar era, communism groups often gain most of the support. This is why universal suffrages were denied in Korea, Vietnam and Malaysia. This made the populism group join the communism group and the conflict became quite severe and led to serious suppression of democracy by any standard.

US supported Britain and France to suppress communism and populism in Malaysia and Vietnam. French lost, then US took control of south Vietnam. British won, after 12 years of armed conflicts in Malaysia. Then the power was transfered to Malaysian capitalism-indigenous Malaysian populism group. They had this cityzenship sensorship to suppress the right of other ethnic groups, so here came Singapore.

Indonisa had a different history, Sukarno came to the power very early and basically nobody messed up with him.

One may ask what have these to do with the United States? I have to say one need to look deep inside the events and can see there're a lot to do with the United States.

Another word about democracy. Democracy based on people sharing same interest and same value. It's all about how to divide a cake and how much people willing to coorperate with each other. To be coorperative there must be a united market, usually a result from industrialization. And it's better to have a way to make the cake bigger so that people are motivated to coorperate. This is why Europe and America became democratic. There were really attractive ways to make the cake bigger: exploit the world or the new world. Just like what Samuel P. Huntington said:

The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do.
 

Ryz05

Junior Member
Just like what Samuel P. Huntington said:

The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do.

Samuel P. Huntington forgot to include how Westerners also had superior technology, advanced research, social, and political infrastructure, and an open mind to try to learn more about the world and other cultures, and a strong desire to make some money. The people during Qing dynasty, on the other hand, were ignorant and arrogant, thinking Westerners as savages and were not interested in their technology as they were in Confucianism and tradition. I'd say any human group is good at organized violence - mass mentality is part of human nature.
 

Spike

Banned Idiot
The United States after WW2 was more interested in suppressing communism than securing the freedom of colonized peoples. It funded the French attempt to reoccupy its former colonies in Indochina, even though it was clear that the Vietnamese wanted to rule themselves. When that failed it tried to artificially divide the country in two, coincidently also destabilizing the government in Cambodia which allowed Pol Pot to rise there.

Other countries in the region had better experiences with the United States, but the Indochina debacle should provide a caution for any expectation of gratitude to America for liberation that South East Asians largely secured for themselves in the decades after WW2.
 

SteelBird

Colonel
The Japanese would not harm them as long as the Cambodians did not object to their occupation. The Japanese were only interested in their natural resources, just like the French.

Well, my friend, the Japs wouldn't had bombed the Pearl Habor if the US was willing to withdraw from Pacific and distroyed all its vessels. Right?


General Lol Nol was a pro-American from what I've heard. I don't know much about King Norodom Sihanuk, except that he tried to overthrow the pro-American government afterwards. Other issues with Cambodia at the time include the rise of Communism with it culminating in the Khmer Rouge when many were killed because of their social class and family history. Vietnam then invaded trying to end the killing of Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge incursion on their territory.

Actually, most Vietnamese withdraw from Cambodia after 17-April-1975. We aren't Vietnamese, but following their steps to Vietnam due to being afraid of the Khmer Rouge's ruling. If you read the thread about "Sino-Vietnam War" in this forum, you'll know that the Vietnamese invaded Cambodia not because they wanted to save their Vietnamese people or Cambodian people.

Forgot to tell you one thing, I'm a Cambodian.


The US military did try to bomb Vietcong bases in Cambodia, and probably was involved in overthrowing the King. However, the US continues to provide funding to improve the country's economy, along with other developed countries and China. It was mainly the divide within Cambodia that led to the unrests.

I'd like to tell you one more thing that we lived in the so-called "liberation region" in Kratie province with the Khmer Rouge since 1970 - 1975. My parents jointed the so-called "revolution" and fought against the US and the puppet army (Lol Nol and S-Vietnamese army). However, they didn't join any fighting directly though we were in the back line. Our village were bombed by US fighters quite frequently.

Today, Cambodia's economy is mainly based on foreign funding from Japan, US, European Union and China. King Norodom Sihanuk called Hun Sen's government as "Beggar Government". I call the country's economy as "Beggar Economy".

Look, the glorious 1960s and today's Cambodia. Who is responsible for that? I'd say the Cambodian ourselves should take the most responsibility, but this dosn't mean that uncle sam is innocent for it.
 

Ryz05

Junior Member
Well, my friend, the Japs wouldn't had bombed the Pearl Habor if the US was willing to withdraw from Pacific and distroyed all its vessels. Right?
No harm would be done to the Cambodians if they didn't protest Japanese occupation. Japan was highly paranoid of the US navy at the doorstep, so they bombed Pearl Harbor without declaring war first.

Actually, most Vietnamese withdraw from Cambodia after 17-April-1975. We aren't Vietnamese, but following their steps to Vietnam due to being afraid of the Khmer Rouge's ruling. If you read the thread about "Sino-Vietnam War" in this forum, you'll know that the Vietnamese invaded Cambodia not because they wanted to save their Vietnamese people or Cambodian people. Forgot to tell you one thing, I'm a Cambodian.
Vietnamese in Cambodia were targeted by Khmer Rouge, so Vietnam invaded partly to save their people as well as stop Khmer's intrusion on Vietnamese territory.

I figured you are Cambodian for wanting to talk so much about Cambodia.


I'd like to tell you one more thing that we lived in the so-called "liberation region" in Kratie province with the Khmer Rouge since 1970 - 1975. My parents jointed the so-called "revolution" and fought against the US and the puppet army (Lol Nol and S-Vietnamese army). However, they didn't join any fighting directly though we were in the back line. Our village were bombed by US fighters quite frequently.

Today, Cambodia's economy is mainly based on foreign funding from Japan, US, European Union and China. King Norodom Sihanuk called Hun Sen's government as "Beggar Government". I call the country's economy as "Beggar Economy".

Look, the glorious 1960s and today's Cambodia. Who is responsible for that? I'd say the Cambodian ourselves should take the most responsibility, but this dosn't mean that uncle sam is innocent for it.

Didn't know your parents were rebel soldiers. It shouldn't matter what government people live under - pro-American or King as long as the country is getting better. Internal bickerings will only make situations worse, like in Iraq.

The US should not be blamed for Cambodia's troubles. It's mainly the Cambodians themselves who are responsible for their situation, unlike how Japan under American occupation prospered.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Cambodia? Today is the anivesary of the fall of Phom Phen. The US military evacuated 276 people from Phom Phen without a hitch.

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I was on the USS Hancock CVA-19 during the evacuation.
 

SteelBird

Colonel
Cambodia? Today is the anivesary of the fall of Phom Phen. The US military evacuated 276 people from Phom Phen without a hitch.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


I was on the USS Hancock CVA-19 during the evacuation.

A little bit early BD, the fall of Phnom Penh was on 17-Apr-1975, and the fall of the Khmer Rouge regime was on 7-Jan-1979.

But tomorrow (14-Apr) is Khmer New Year. Happy New Year to all Cambodian around the world.

For Ryz05

No harm would be done to the Cambodians if they didn't protest Japanese occupation. Japan was highly paranoid of the US navy at the doorstep, so they bombed Pearl Harbor without declaring war first.

Oh! my friend, I really don't understand your thinking. If somebody occupy your house, would you protest? Even so (no protestion), the Japs would have taken all the resouce of Cambodia and Cambodian people would become slaves.


Vietnamese in Cambodia were targeted by Khmer Rouge, so Vietnam invaded partly to save their people as well as stop Khmer's intrusion on Vietnamese territory.

I figured you are Cambodian for wanting to talk so much about Cambodia.

You don't know what really had happened here. As I said before, most Vietnamese people left Cambodia for their country shortly after the fall of Phnom Penh. The Vietnamese who remained died shortly afterward, no one could servive. So there was NO MORE VIETNAMESE PEOPLE in Cambodia until 1979 for the vietnamese soldier to save!


Didn't know your parents were rebel soldiers. It shouldn't matter what government people live under - pro-American or King as long as the country is getting better. Internal bickerings will only make situations worse, like in Iraq.

The US should not be blamed for Cambodia's troubles. It's mainly the Cambodians themselves who are responsible for their situation, unlike how Japan under American occupation prospered.

I figured you're an American as your status stated, right? You call this as rebel soldier? OK, in your point of view, I think this is right. But if one day the US is invaded or attacked by some country, what would you think?

Oh, I almost forgot it, it happened twice to the US in the past; the pearl habor and the 9.11. Why not uncle sam just kept quiet? I'd like to tell you one truth. There is no right nor wrong for the both sides of a war, but which side you stand for.

The US's politic is to seek democracy and freedom for the world (correct me if I'm wrong). But one thing I don't understand, they never mention about independence. As the US has never been occupied by any country in the past, I'm afraid you never understand the value of independence. If there is no independence, how can you have democracy and freedom? I can tell you that Cambodia has no true independence up to now, that's why it has no true democracy and freedom.

I'm afraid the mods won't be happy for us to diccuss about this, cause it's deep related in politics and this forum does not allow to. So, let's quit it here.

Once again, Happy New Year to all Cambodian people around the world.
 
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zighail

Banned Idiot
Nazi Germany might have weakened the British, but who knows what they would've done had British lost - they could have taken India as its own colony. In the view that Nazi are racial supremists, life would undoubtedly be harder under their rule as millions become slaves for the Third Reich. Be thankful that the United States saved the day and freed Southeast Asia from colonialism by Nazi or Imperial Japan.
lol. be thankful that the united states "saved the day". let's remember that it was the united states military who killed everyone over the age of 10 in the filipines. the u.s regime was also supporting the nazis to the very end. it's no surprise that these same americans are bombing civilians with depleted uranium today, and backing death squads in Syria. i dont think the nazis were great, but trading one nazi for another is not exactly a great choice either.
 

zighail

Banned Idiot
The United States after WW2 was more interested in suppressing communism than securing the freedom of colonized peoples. It funded the French attempt to reoccupy its former colonies in Indochina, even though it was clear that the Vietnamese wanted to rule themselves. When that failed it tried to artificially divide the country in two, coincidently also destabilizing the government in Cambodia which allowed Pol Pot to rise there.

Other countries in the region had better experiences with the United States, but the Indochina debacle should provide a caution for any expectation of gratitude to America for liberation that South East Asians largely secured for themselves in the decades after WW2.

freedom and america dont go together. in fact, freedom, and the west, in general, dont go together. look at singapore- former british colony, and backed by the u.s regime. they are one of the most repressive regimes in the world, where you cant even chew bubble gum. another one is the uae, where you can get arrested for kissing. israel- check points all over the place and massive repression of Palestinians. the united states itself has more prisoners than any other country in the world. in arizona, you can get stopped by police just for looking hispanic. britain, canada, australia, and new zealand all have higher than average incarceration rates. you are 6 times more likely to end up in prison in the usa than China
 
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