South Korean Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
As far as any public knowledge? Made up.
Could the US lock F35 systems by remote? Maybe. No official statements. F35 and Fifth Gen fighters are highly sophisticated machines. Russians and others have claimed a mythical kill switch in all American military tech. Yet if one existed in older generations then why is it IS and the like were able to operate Abrams tanks? The Taliban operate UH60 chopper, North Korea fly MD500, Iran fly F14, Venezuela F16?
The US kill switch is to stop supporting the parts and up keep.
 
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SanWenYu

Senior Member
Registered Member
As far as any public knowledge? Made up.
Could the US lock F35 systems by remote? Maybe. No official statements. F35 and Fifth Gen fighters are highly sophisticated machines. Russians and others have claimed a mythical kill switch in all American military tech. Yet if one existed in older generations then why is it IS and the like were able to operate Abrams tanks? The Taliban operate UH60 chopper, North Korea fly MD500, Iran fly F14, Venezuela F16?
The US kill switch is to stop supporting the parts and up keep.
To be honest, I find your refutal weak. Basically you are saying there is no public knowledge regarding kill switch in F35. This to me can be interpreted in either way.

Let's say you are right about that the US did not or could not have a kill switch in their previous generations of weapons. But that does not mean it cannot do so in F35 which is widely believed to be relying on software and network to operate.

Last but not least, you tried to dismiss him as "a CPP political talking head". This is a stawman fallcy. Where he stands politically has nothing to do with his credibility. Have you found him lying previously?
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
In response, Can you tell me that the PRC doesn’t have a kill switch in any of its Export equipment? Can you absolutely unequivocally tell me that any of the fighters sold to say Pakistan or missiles or anything else doesn’t have a kill switch?
No; you can’t because if such a system exist it’s likely classified.
The same would be likely true for F35. If such was available it would only be known by LM, the DOD, and possibly the US government so as to keep it for a bad day. US partners in F35 have complained of the fighter sending sensitive data back to the US but none have stated a need for assurance that it doesn’t have a “Kill switch”.

Next let’s take a moment and discuss the stupidity of a kill switch. So you build a weapons system and include a back door that allows your brand new high tech system to be rendered a paperweight. Don’t you think the Russians and Chinese would be searching heaven and earth to find such? Hackers find back doors. Not Look for FIND! The RF and PRC have very good hackers DPRK and Iran have good Hackers any number of unaffiliated black hat groups have great hackers. Hackers who would love to ransom or sell a kill switch for bit coin beyond their wildest dreams that such a product would nab.
Generally cyber security it a big deal especially around programs like F35 which has been openly pointed to has having multiple hacking attempts. Under such a threat. A kill switch would be if anything absolutely stupid. Begging for your fighters to be rendered impotent if an adversary has hacked the key.
As you correctly indicate F35 has a sophisticated network centered around it. That network has been part of the Bane of the F35 program management.
This network is centered around ground based maintenance and support management. This is as when in operations F35 is supposed to be stealth and transmission of live mission data to a centralized network is contrary to the whole point of Stealth. Which flies in the face of the Claim made. IE the missions would probably be launched before any kill command could hit the systems.

Finally You can call it a straw man if you like but my point is and stands. That commentator isn’t part of the F35 program. He has no inside information on the program. Is unlikely to have received any brief on the program even from Chinese Intelligence. He can’t produce evidence of his claim. In other words. He has nothing but hot air. If you want to take him seriously that’s your choice. But as a semi serious forum on military issues, using him as your informant is weak at best.
Kill switch and kill commands are generally up their with Conspiracy theories.
 

gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
The F35 connects to a US located parts and inventory system. You are supposed to control weapon stores using this system among other things. It phones home and does remote updates. If you need to upload mission packages with maps, etc, to the aircraft you also need to download them from the US central server. Just imagine that, the US central server knows every single strike mission you do, which weapons loadout you have, etc. It is a major security hazard.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
The F35 connects to a US located parts and inventory system. You are supposed to control weapon stores using this system among other things. It phones home and does remote updates. If you need to upload mission packages with maps, etc, to the aircraft you also need to download them from the US central server. Just imagine that, the US central server knows every single strike mission you do, which weapons loadout you have, etc. It is a major security hazard.
That claim has been made in the past. However first that’s not an “Activation code”
That a filing system. Next as of 2020 that was supposed to have ended.
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The SDM or Sovereign Data Management system was implemented beginning in 2019 which firewalls the planing and management with a release non release mechanism in the ALICE system.
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Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
The F35 connects to a US located parts and inventory system. You are supposed to control weapon stores using this system among other things. It phones home and does remote updates. If you need to upload mission packages with maps, etc, to the aircraft you also need to download them from the US central server. Just imagine that, the US central server knows every single strike mission you do, which weapons loadout you have, etc. It is a major security hazard.
If for at any reason the aircraft gets remote data from a US-operated location, then there is no way to guard against a hidden killswitch unless you have access to the source code (at least to the communication module source code)

Because who knows, maybe the aircraft is being sent some trivial data from overseas such as recommeneded loadouts, maintenance availability (making things up), the moment the aircraft is recieving anything at all from another country, then it is hilariously easy to hide a killswitch.

You can hide it in the communication protocol, or part of the commands, or part of the originating source. Basically, you can hide it everywhere

I don't know exactly how the F-35 communication system works, but if it recieves any data at all from overseas, then i consider it to have a hidden killswitch. S.Korea needs access to the source code to ensure 100% safety on this
 

SanWenYu

Senior Member
Registered Member
In response, Can you tell me that the PRC doesn’t have a kill switch in any of its Export equipment? Can you absolutely unequivocally tell me that any of the fighters sold to say Pakistan or missiles or anything else doesn’t have a kill switch?
I cannot. In the same way as whether or not F35 has a kill switch remains unprovable for us the mortal and for the time being.

No; you can’t because if such a system exist it’s likely classified.
The same would be likely true for F35. If such was available it would only be known by LM, the DOD, and possibly the US government so as to keep it for a bad day. US partners in F35 have complained of the fighter sending sensitive data back to the US but none have stated a need for assurance that it doesn’t have a “Kill switch”.
Again, this does not prove the existence of a "kill switch" in F35 one way or the other. It does tell us that, because F35 relies on LM's support network so much, it's now easier for the US to implement a kill switch (or activation code, see below) in it than in previous generations of weapons.

Next let’s take a moment and discuss the stupidity of a kill switch. So you build a weapons system and include a back door that allows your brand new high tech system to be rendered a paperweight. Don’t you think the Russians and Chinese would be searching heaven and earth to find such? Hackers find back doors. Not Look for FIND! The RF and PRC have very good hackers DPRK and Iran have good Hackers any number of unaffiliated black hat groups have great hackers. Hackers who would love to ransom or sell a kill switch for bit coin beyond their wildest dreams that such a product would nab.
Generally cyber security it a big deal especially around programs like F35 which has been openly pointed to has having multiple hacking attempts. Under such a threat. A kill switch would be if anything absolutely stupid. Begging for your fighters to be rendered impotent if an adversary has hacked the key.
To be fair, the original tweet actually said "activation code", not "kill switch". Activation codes are not back doors. They are not exactly same as kill switches either. They are more like ignition keys.

You started talking about how Russians claimed that the US had kill switches in exported weapons. I was following your steps with the term "kill switch". Now you are blasting it as "absolutely stupid". In hindsignt, I should have known the differences between kill switch and activation code and not to fall into it.

As you correctly indicate F35 has a sophisticated network centered around it. That network has been part of the Bane of the F35 program management.
This network is centered around ground based maintenance and support management. This is as when in operations F35 is supposed to be stealth and transmission of live mission data to a centralized network is contrary to the whole point of Stealth. Which flies in the face of the Claim made. IE the missions would probably be launched before any kill command could hit the systems.
I would not want to get into details in network communication and cryptography. Let's just say that there are many ways to ensure secure network communications. I would be pleasantly surprised if LM cannot even figure out this.

Not all kill switches need live connections with motherships. And mind you that kill switches over network, in theory, can even work passively when needed. Hence stealth isn't something that stops implementing kill switches.

Finally You can call it a straw man if you like but my point is and stands. That commentator isn’t part of the F35 program. He has no inside information on the program. Is unlikely to have received any brief on the program even from Chinese Intelligence. He can’t produce evidence of his claim. In other words. He has nothing but hot air. If you want to take him seriously that’s your choice. But as a semi serious forum on military issues, using him as your informant is weak at best.
Kill switch and kill commands are generally up their with Conspiracy theories.
My point is that, even though you cannot refute him with evidence, you still called him "made up" after the strawman. That's weak.

By your standard, all speculations regarding things underneath the surface are just conspiracy theories then. I wish the same standard could be upheld everywhere.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
As you correctly indicate F35 has a sophisticated network centered around it. That network has been part of the Bane of the F35 program management.
This network is centered around ground based maintenance and support management. This is as when in operations F35 is supposed to be stealth and transmission of live mission data to a centralized network is contrary to the whole point of Stealth. Which flies in the face of the Claim made. IE the missions would probably be launched before any kill command could hit the systems.
Have you ever developed software?
If the aircraft's source code is not available to S.Korea (and others), if the remote US-operated location (maintenance, other live updates, communications etc) sends any kind of data to the aircraft and S.Korea doesn't have physical presence or the source code of the software used in that location. And if S.Korea doesn't have access to the communication module source code of the aircraft, then the US can hide 10s of killswitches without anyone ever realising it

So this talk for killswitches is already settled in my mind. If the F-35-operating countries don't have access to the source code of the aircraft then there is a near 100% chance that the F-35 has killswtches

Btw the tweet posted was about activation codes needed daily, not for a killswitch
 

getready

Senior Member
Let's wait to see if there is any official statements on this. In the meantime I will rather believe it. I can more fully understand why the koreans are keen to develop their own stealth fighters now.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
But it is strange a CCP affiliated tweet would mention quite a factoid so confidently. He may indeed have info from Chinese intelligence on the Korean F-35's operational procedures. If not, there is really no point stating this.

Also if it isn't true, the Koreans and Americans could state otherwise. Who knows. Maybe they would prefer to keep quiet about it or not, if it even is in place. The political agenda behind saying it is to imply American military stranglehold on South Korea to the point the Koreans pay full price for barely a say in how they use the equipment they purchased. I find it hard to believe that would be a false statement since it is far too easy to be disproven and the affects of which are embarrassing for the person who wrote it. It wouldn't be hard at all for intelligence to pick up something as relatively trivial as this.
 
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