Sino-Vietnamese War (1979): What was the end results of it ?

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antiterror13

Brigadier
So? What does it being 45 years ago have to do with anything? In fact, it's even more amusing that now 45 years later the Russians are doing the same thing. Maybe the washing machines are just as valuable to the Russians as sewing machines were to PLA back then.

The books give example that shows that while there was official order to take everything, there was still some looting due to personal greed, although that was swiftly punished.


I am very much aware of how much things value back then. The amusing thing is that PLA took all the trivial stuff is the same behaviour happening in the Ukraine war.

Is it a joke or really a question ? you don't have any understanding the difference between PRC today and back then 45 yrs ago, really ?
 

luosifen

Junior Member
Registered Member
A distant relative of mine is a PLA veteran of this war. His personal anecdote was that starting out he was afraid of dying, but once the bullets started flying and he saw his friends getting killed, his fear was replaced with rage and bloodlust and he proceeded to then kill every Vietnamese in front of him to avenge his comrades.

In terms of how that war proceeded, the CPC leadership never intended to permanently occupy Vietnam. Instead, the aim was to send a 'message' in stronger terms than written and verbal to the Vietnamese leadership what crossing Chinese red lines were (claiming Chinese border territories, tearing up a previously signed treaty agreeing Xi Sha belongs to China, side with the Soviets, attacking Chinese allies in Laos and Cambodia). The PLA achieved its military objectives during the one month offensive (though casualties were certainly higher as the top general in charge was originally a monk who was big on bravery and less on tactical finesse), then pulled back to China. While the offensive did not immediately achieve the CPC's political goals, the damaged suffered by Vietnam prevented it from posing a more serious threat to China as their industry was set back a decade, giving the CPC a more favourable negotiating position once the USSR backing Vietnam fell apart and hostilities ended.

Personally I'm happy this part of the conflict only lasted a month, my parents who were college students at the time were given notice to be ready for mobilization if the PLA called, so there's a chance I may not have been born :)
 

Volpler11

Junior Member
Registered Member
Doing all that reading and you're understanding of war and the historical contexts of the 2 different conflicts are just bad. To compare the economic, technological conditions the war doctrines, and war aims of the 2 militaries of China and today's Russia is just bizarre and numbingly stupid.
And I have said so in the original comment that obviously, the cause of the war and reasoning for looting were different between the two wars. But there are still many striking similarities. Just because there are differences between the economics and technological conditions doesn't mean the wars can't be compared. The discussion is not between today's China vs Russia, but rather today's Russia vs China in the 70/80s. Both wars were fought between near pear opponents. The relative strength of China vs Vietnam back then was much similar to Russia vs Ukraine today.

I would also like to add that the proximate cause of the wars is similar. That a country China/Russia views as in their sphere of influence choosing to align with another country. That Vietnam chose to switch sides to the Soviet Union and Ukraine switched to pro-EU/US. But there are also different war aims, the Chinese objective being a short punishing war while the Russians were more land grab.
 

Volpler11

Junior Member
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Is it a joke or really a question ? you don't have any understanding the difference between PRC today and back then 45 yrs ago, really ?
I understand the difference between PRC today and 45 years ago, but I don't understand what does today's PRC has to do with the discussion at hand which is about the Sino-Vietnamese war in 1979 and the current Ukraine war. It is irrelevant what PRC is like today. If anything the 43 years difference makes the similarities between the two wars even more notable. The Russian army right now is not well training and equipt just like PLA was not well trained after the cultural revolution prior to the 1979 war.
 

Volpler11

Junior Member
Registered Member
A distant relative of mine is a PLA veteran of this war. His personal anecdote was that starting out he was afraid of dying, but once the bullets started flying and he saw his friends getting killed, his fear was replaced with rage and bloodlust and he proceeded to then kill every Vietnamese in front of him to avenge his comrades.
This seems to be the fundamental nature of war that never changes.

I was going to post translations of a few select sections from the book, please excuse my amateurish translation
Perhaps many people will not believe Chinese military is capable of conducting this type of "three all policy[1]"

[1] referes to
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policy Japense had in China during WWII
Edit:sorry posted too soon.
 

Volpler11

Junior Member
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Translation from the book
I was going to post translations of a few select sections from the book, please excuse my amateurish translation
Perhaps many people will not believe Chinese military is capable of conducting this type of "three all policy[1]", this is completely against PLA's aim of serving the people. People that never participated in war perhaps will never understand, when you see your comrade was fighting shoulder to shoulder with you in one moment, but dead the next; when you have not shut eye after many day and night, fighting in continous raid, fear and hunger; when continous fighting extremely exceeded physical limitation, mind starts to hallucinate, see how long your spirit and heart can cope under fear, paranoia, and confusion. Some fellow soldier have said that they would rather by killed promptly by a bullet than die of exhaustion under those extreme condition. You didn't want to kill those unarmed civilians, but the phycological fear forced you to not able to endure those pressure; when terror is always in your mind, you feel that any living thing will pose a danger to you; when an unit think all grass and tree are solders, you could do something you cannot imagine. Do not know if this is fear, or retaliate, or hallucination, but during the whole war period, intentional or unintentional shotting of comrade and civilians, desertion, self mutalation... those thing that should or should not have happened have occured.

On 20th of Feb, 1st battalion 361st regiment depart from hill 809, at 2pm, forward element of the battalion encounted enemy resistance at Bianya Pass, battalion commander and commissar were killed. Main element of the battalion conducted suppressive fire after arrival and seek over along the two sides of the road, seeking to push forward. That night started to meneovering towards 2nd battalion 367th regiment. Six members of the 1st battalion 361 regiment becomes lost and run towards 2nd battaion 367th regiment. At this time the deputy chief of staff Chen in command of 2nd battalion 367th regiment cannot determine the credential of the six soldiers, since the battalion is conduction breakthrough push and feels leaving the those solders behind will pose a threat of the security of the unit, Chen personally shot the six soldiers. One squad leader did not die and was rescued by the their unit. After the war Chen who was promoted to deputy regiment commander was sentenced to prison (there are rumour online that Chen also engaged in cannibalism, shooting pregmant woman, buring elderly and children, but the author cannot prove those).

[1] referes to
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policy Japense had in China during WWII
Those can be very relevant to both the Ukraine and Russian side
 

Bellum_Romanum

Colonel
Registered Member
And I have said so in the original comment that obviously, the cause of the war and reasoning for looting were different between the two wars. But there are still many striking similarities. Just because there are differences between the economics and technological conditions doesn't mean the wars can't be compared. The discussion is not between today's China vs Russia, but rather today's Russia vs China in the 70/80s. Both wars were fought between near pear opponents. The relative strength of China vs Vietnam back then was much similar to Russia vs Ukraine today.

I would also like to add that the proximate cause of the wars is similar. That a country China/Russia views as in their sphere of influence choosing to align with another country. That Vietnam chose to switch sides to the Soviet Union and Ukraine switched to pro-EU/US. But there are also different war aims, the Chinese objective being a short punishing war while the Russians were more land grab.
Fair enough. I was too impetuous and short sighted for using the word "stupid" so I take that back.
 

Minm

Junior Member
Registered Member
And I have said so in the original comment that obviously, the cause of the war and reasoning for looting were different between the two wars. But there are still many striking similarities. Just because there are differences between the economics and technological conditions doesn't mean the wars can't be compared. The discussion is not between today's China vs Russia, but rather today's Russia vs China in the 70/80s. Both wars were fought between near pear opponents. The relative strength of China vs Vietnam back then was much similar to Russia vs Ukraine today.

I would also like to add that the proximate cause of the wars is similar. That a country China/Russia views as in their sphere of influence choosing to align with another country. That Vietnam chose to switch sides to the Soviet Union and Ukraine switched to pro-EU/US. But there are also different war aims, the Chinese objective being a short punishing war while the Russians were more land grab.
Vietnam had a very large and powerful army at that time and was waging wars in two neighbouring countries. Ukraine is a failed state whose army threw down their weapons and fled 8 years ago. 45 years ago, Vietnam and China were technological peers. Ukraine certainly isn't a peer to Russia today.
 

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