Shenyang / SAC - newly announced 5th generation fighter


SinoSoldier

Colonel
nor I... Also some of the people are saying this is a UAV project (I personally disagree)
Could also be a tactical bomber program or even pre-research for future fighter concepts rather than a project. Another distant possibility is that naval fighter jet is a clean-sheet design, but this would go against earlier rumors that the fighter is well into its development and perhaps even prototype construction.
 

SinoSoldier

Colonel
Take the Global Times report with a pitcher of salt. But unfortunately it's the only English-based version of the news.

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By Liu Xuanzun
Source: Global Times
Published: 2019/12/13 18:43:40
Last Updated: 2019/12/14 0:45:21

China is developing a new type of fighter jet, according to the country's top aircraft design institutes on Thursday. Military observers predict, based on publicly available information, that the aircraft will be stealth-capable and feature the significant use of advanced composite materials.

In 2018, the structure department of the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) Shenyang Aircraft Design and Research Institute and the arms project department of the AVIC Manufacturing Technology Institute jointly established a team codenamed "JJ" with the aim of developing a new type of fighter jet, according to an article released on both institutes' public WeChat accounts this week.

The joint-development project was first planned in June 2018 and commenced with an opening ceremony in September 2018. The JJ team submitted an illustration of a test piece in November 2019, according to the article.

The article did not elaborate on the name or specifics of the new fighter jet, but it provided a photo which suggests the JJ team might include a smaller group focused on the development of an S-shaped air duct.

S-shaped air ducts are usually found in stealth aircraft as they obscure the engine from hostile radar, a military expert who asked to remain anonymous told the Global Times on Friday.

Three groups under the JJ team received awards during a commendation ceremony held on Tuesday, the article read. Two of the groups developed composite materials for the entire structure and integrated metal inlet, while the other preliminarily demonstrated a type of advanced material.

"The team has completed the cross-phase development of the new fighter jet. [We] have used innovation and realized a technical breakthrough for the body's design and manufacturing," said Xiao Shan, one of the awarded researchers, according to the article.

AVIC's Shenyang branch is known for developing a number of Chinese fighter jets including the J-11, the J-16, and in particular the J-15 carrier-based fighter jet. It also designed China's second stealth aircraft following the J-20, namely the FC-31, which did not enter Chinese military service and became a made-for-export product.

Some military observers have speculated that the new fighter jet could be an upgraded, domestic version of the FC-31, while others predict it could be an entirely different aircraft.

Many military enthusiasts also expect the Shenyang Institute to develop China's next-generation carrier-based fighter jet.
Newspaper headline: Aircraft design institute develops new stealth fighter jet: report
If this interpretation of the WeChat messages is accurate, then this implies that the project is still in its infancy and it might be many years before a prototype could be under construction. However, this very much depends on what "cross-phase" means and what it refers to in the scope of aircraft research & development processes.
 

Tam

Captain
Registered Member
Does not sound like an all new design to me. Joint development would have meant you are taking an existing team --- namely the one from Shenyang --- and joined with another (Chengdu? Other engineers from other sectors of AVIC?) This means they are putting together a super star engineering team on this, adding to the core team from Shenyang (FC-31 team).

You would have to take an existing design, evaluate it, decide where changes have to be made.

Cross phase is a strange phase to use in this context, normally it is used in the case of optics, as in cross phase modulation. Pretty sure the word as it is used here has nothing to do with cross phase modulation. But figuratively it can mean the development from another project (J-20?) might be tied and influencing this project so this can mean sharing techs between one project to another.

As for many years to develop a prototype, that can happen if many of the techs necessary to build it have to start from scratch. Not on this one.

S-shaped ducts are nothing new. J-10 would have required an S-shaped duct.

What are we looking for here? Possibly a "Super" version of the FC-31, kind of like Super Hornet is to the Hornet.
 
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Scchwerter_

New Member
Registered Member
Could also be a tactical bomber program or even pre-research for future fighter concepts rather than a project. Another distant possibility is that naval fighter jet is a clean-sheet design, but this would go against earlier rumors that the fighter is well into its development and perhaps even prototype construction.
True, but from the article I think this will most likely be a fighter... also someone dug up a old pic of SAC inviting tendors for a EOTS system around the end of 2018, which I think is another proof that this project is developing a 4th gen fighter and not a future fighter concept (I mean neither the J-15 nor the J-16 is equipped with EOTS, but this doesn't rule out the possibility of this new plane being a tactical bomber)
 

SinoSoldier

Colonel
Does not sound like an all new design to me. Joint development would have meant you are taking an existing team --- namely the one from Shenyang --- and joined with another (Chengdu? Other engineers from other sectors of AVIC?) This means they are putting together a super star engineering team on this, adding to the core team from Shenyang (FC-31 team).

You would have to take an existing design, evaluate it, decide where changes have to be made.

Cross phase is a strange phase to use in this context, normally it is used in the case of optics, as in cross phase modulation. Pretty sure the word as it is used here has nothing to do with cross phase modulation. But figuratively it can mean the development from another project (J-20?) might be tied and influencing this project so this can mean sharing techs between one project to another.

As for many years to develop a prototype, that can happen if many of the techs necessary to build it have to start from scratch. Not on this one.

S-shaped ducts are nothing new. J-10 would have required an S-shaped duct.

What are we looking for here? Possibly a "Super" version of the FC-31, kind of like Super Hornet is to the Hornet.
Besides the "joint development team" and the fact that this project seems to be run by Shenyang, there's not much to suggest that this is a direct offshoot of the FC-31 program. Folks seem to agree that the article mentions that test components have already been manufactured and that the design has been frozen, so the question is whether the project is about to enter the detailed design phase (requiring more time than people might've anticipated) or the prototype manufacturing stage (which itself can take over a year).
 

SinoSoldier

Colonel
True, but from the article I think this will most likely be a fighter... also someone dug up a old pic of SAC inviting tendors for a EOTS system around the end of 2018, which I think is another proof that this project is developing a 4th gen fighter and not a future fighter concept (I mean neither the J-15 nor the J-16 is equipped with EOTS, but this doesn't rule out the possibility of this new plane being a tactical bomber)
It does seem to match up with the timing of the tender. Interesting that they decided to forgo some level of security and publish this info for public consumption.
 

taxiya

Major
Registered Member
Cross-Phase is "转阶段" in the wechat article. It means the program moving from one development stage to the next. Translation is always tricky, 转 can be translated to "cross, turn, move on, change, transit", 阶段 can be translated to "phase, stage, level, section". Which English word to take depends on the subject.

I agree with Totoro's post #393 that, it is very likely that the joint team's activity is part of FC-31 program. The "new fighter jet" when adopted by PLA will be FC-31 derived.

The wechat article does not reveal any previously unknown program, but a reward to part of ongoing program's effort.

P.S. the two teams are structural department of 601 institute and military product department of
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of AVIC. MTI is the dedicated institute in the manufacturing technology within AVIC serving everyone including CAC and SAC etc. It is headquartered in Beijing.
 

SinoSoldier

Colonel
Cross-Phase is "转阶段" in the wechat article. It means the program moving from one development stage to the next. Translation is always tricky, 转 can be translated to "cross, turn, move on, change, transit", 阶段 can be translated to "phase, stage, level, section". Which English word to take depends on the subject.

I agree with Totoro's post #393 that, it is very likely that the joint team's activity is part of FC-31 program. The "new fighter jet" when adopted by PLA will be FC-31 derived.

The wechat article does not reveal any previously unknown program, but a reward to part of ongoing program's effort.

P.S. the two teams are structural department of 601 institute and military product department of
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
of AVIC. MTI is the dedicated institute in the manufacturing technology within AVIC serving everyone including CAC and SAC etc. It is headquartered in Beijing.
Does the article give any hints as to what stages it's transitioning to? Some people think it's moving into the construction phase while others think it's about to begin detailed design phase.
 

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