Saudis eye Type 45 Destroyers in possible 2 billion USD deal


crazyinsane105

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Shipyards eye £2bn deal to safeguard 2000 jobs


BOSSES at the Clyde warship yards are bidding to clinch a £2billion deal which would help secure more than 2000 jobs.

The Saudia Arabian government is negotiating to buy up to three Clyde-built Type 45 destroyers - the most advanced in the world.

The Glasgow yards and VT's Portsmouth facility already have orders worth more than £6bn for six Type 45s for the Royal Navy. The £650million HMS Daring was launched last year and another five Type 45s are planned.

advertisementIf the government talks produce a sale, the deal would give Saudia Arabia the most powerful surface naval force in the Persian Gulf.

The contracts would also support 650 jobs at VT's Portsmouth facility.

There were fears that an option to build two more Type 45s was to be scrapped because the MoD was facing a cash crisis over a number of multi-billion pound projects over the next decade.

These include bills for a flotilla of Astute-class nuclear attack submarines, two 60,000-tone aircraft carriers and Nimrod MR4 surveillance aircraft.

A naval source said: "If even two of the new destroyers are sold to the Saudis, it will pull both BAE and the MoD out of a cash-flow hole.

"It would maintain a constant workload for the UK yards, boost the order book and spin out the MoD's payment plan for other items."

The Royal Navy originally planned to order 12 Type 45s, but was forced to scale back due to budget cuts.

Publication date 12/03/07
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Seems like the Saudis are really beefing up their navy ever since the Lebanon conflict last summer. Over the summer there were reports that the Saudis would also buy six Marlin SSK's from France.
 

DPRKUnderground

Junior Member
I think they want to protect their shipping. They don't want to rely on the US for maritime security if Iran decides to do something crazy. Iran is the only nation in the Persian Gulf that has an SSK. Would Pakistan be a Persian Gulf nation?
 

Pointblank

Senior Member
The problem is that the entire Persian Gulf is easily covered by air cover, and the Saudi's have one of the best air forces on paper in the region, with F-15's, Panavia Tornado's, and soon, Eurofighters. Any surface fleet can be protected with nearby air cover from Saudi airbases. As such, this purchase does not make sense, unless the Saudi's aim to expand their power projection capabilities beyond the Persian Gulf and aim for more of a blue-water navy. The Type 45 destroyer is primarily a anti-air warfare platform, not a sub hunter.
 

crazyinsane105

Junior Member
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The problem is that the entire Persian Gulf is easily covered by air cover, and the Saudi's have one of the best air forces on paper in the region, with F-15's, Panavia Tornado's, and soon, Eurofighters. Any surface fleet can be protected with nearby air cover from Saudi airbases. As such, this purchase does not make sense, unless the Saudi's aim to expand their power projection capabilities beyond the Persian Gulf and aim for more of a blue-water navy. The Type 45 destroyer is primarily a anti-air warfare platform, not a sub hunter.
Maybe they want these to protect their oil tankers from Iranian aircraft and missiles?n:confused: The Saudis are going to plan to buy several SSK's from France (there was an excellent article about this a while back in the summer of 06). I think those should be more than enough to counter Iranian subs (best way to counter a sub is with another sub).
 

FuManChu

Senior Member
The Type 45 destroyer is primarily a anti-air warfare platform, not a sub hunter.
However it was built to allow upgrades - it wouldn't be too difficult to add an ASW capability. Also Harpoons could be easily added. A Type-45 comes with all the electronics and wiring needed - it's just a question of adding on the launchers.

I'm sure if Saudi does place an order it will be for a modified version.
 

Pointblank

Senior Member
However it was built to allow upgrades - it wouldn't be too difficult to add an ASW capability. Also Harpoons could be easily added. A Type-45 comes with all the electronics and wiring needed - it's just a question of adding on the launchers.

I'm sure if Saudi does place an order it will be for a modified version.
The problem is that the UK are only using the Type 45 as a AAW warship, as the sonar is only hull mounted. The ship lacks as designed a towed sonar array which is critical for detecting submarines operating at depth. I don't see space for a towed sonar array on the stern.
 

FuManChu

Senior Member
The problem is that the UK are only using the Type 45 as a AAW warship, as the sonar is only hull mounted. The ship lacks as designed a towed sonar array which is critical for detecting submarines operating at depth. I don't see space for a towed sonar array on the stern.
I don't know about towed sonar, but it could still be given more ASW features. To be fair the helo would already be able to provide some sort of a function in that area.

But I don't see why they would bother buying such an expensive platform for sub-hunting. If they make an order it will be for the AAW capabilities. Maybe for a country on a budget you'd question why, but this is Saudi Arabia - money isn't too much of a problem for them.

They could be looking at the need to protect oil tankers in case of war as crazy suggested.
 

Pointblank

Senior Member
I don't know about towed sonar, but it could still be given more ASW features. To be fair the helo would already be able to provide some sort of a function in that area.

But I don't see why they would bother buying such an expensive platform for sub-hunting. If they make an order it will be for the AAW capabilities. Maybe for a country on a budget you'd question why, but this is Saudi Arabia - money isn't too much of a problem for them.

They could be looking at the need to protect oil tankers in case of war as crazy suggested.
A hull mounted sonar and a helicopter is not sufficient to be a modern ASW asset. Look at Western warships that have ASW as their primary function; they all have towed sonar arrays, plus additional equipment that help quieten down the engine noise.

As I stated earlier, the entire Persian Gulf can be covered through the Saudi Air Force's modern aircraft, combined with their AWACS and tanker support. This purchase really doesn't make much sense as existing platforms can do the job just as well combined with air support.
 

FuManChu

Senior Member
A hull mounted sonar and a helicopter is not sufficient to be a modern ASW asset. Look at Western warships that have ASW as their primary function; they all have towed sonar arrays, plus additional equipment that help quieten down the engine noise.
Oh, bloody hell. I just forgot that the Darings can have a towed sonar array fitted. There was a big thing about this when the MoD said they were only going to fit the ship-side part of the torpedo defence system. But they've also bought towed sonar arrays - it's just that they'll only be equipped on the destroyers when they're on deployment.

I knew there was something I had forgotten.

As I stated earlier, the entire Persian Gulf can be covered through the Saudi Air Force's modern aircraft, combined with their AWACS and tanker support. This purchase really doesn't make much sense as existing platforms can do the job just as well combined with air support.
As I said, if Saudi wants to waste their money we won't be complaining. But given they're only "interested" at the moment there's a long way to go.
 

a.rahman

Just Hatched
Registered Member
whats the point of buying expensive equipment when they are protected by the western powers?
 

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