Roger that!
Russian Su-57 Aircraft Thread (PAK-FA and IAF FGFA)
- Thread starter A Bar Brother
- Start date
Roger that!
Jura The idiot
General
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
I know I am a little late but it is a interesting article.
Actually @Air Force Brat, based on what we know the Datalink system of F35 and F22 it’s not even in the same ball park.
the Russian article focused on encryption to try and prevent understanding of the messages by potential adversaries.
F22 and F35 Datalinks are encrypted to but critically they are line of sight based.
It’s the difference between a lamp and a laser. Some critics of both fighters have not liked the IFDL or MADL because the US and a number of our allies use Link 16 as the standard. But Link 16 is Omni directional if you are an adversary you can hear the transmission if you know how to listen for it, you may not be able to decrypt it but you can try and triangulate the broadcasters locations.
IFDL and MADL however are focused only those in the line of signals can hear them. Even if you have the tech to listen for the messages you basically have to be flying between the sender and receiver to intercept.
Of course the article doesn’t go into details but the encryption aspect seems to indicate Omnidirectional.
So, here they talk about frequency.
Low frequency is omnidirectional because it is not possible to install phased array antennas.
High frequency relatively easy to make directional by by phased array.
To be resistant against jamming the communication channel has to be directional,
Now, the interesting is why anyone think that there is a generation difference between the USA and the foreign (German, Russian, Japanese, Chinese ) stuff ?
It is not the 80's/90's any more ,at that time the USA had 5-10 years of advantage in the semiconductor technology, and that gives magnitude(s) more processing power and electronic capability for many military application.
in the 10's the similar advantage gives few percent more processing / electronics capability compared to say Russian/Chinese equivalents.
A bad engineer / programmer has bigger impact on the performance of F-35/Su-57// J-20 than the technology / hardware differences .
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
...... I think you are potentially both right and wrong.
In terms of technologies the term “Generation” can have multiple potential meanings depending on who you are talking to about what subject.
You focused on the processors but speed is just one feature and being blunt the Russian military doesn’t use the same semiconductors as NATO states or Chinese. The US is a world leader in semiconductors to this day.
Military hardware rarely uses off the shelf unless there is a dire need. so claiming equal performance is questionable.
In terms of technologies the term “Generation” can have multiple potential meanings depending on who you are talking to about what subject.
You focused on the processors but speed is just one feature and being blunt the Russian military doesn’t use the same semiconductors as NATO states or Chinese. The US is a world leader in semiconductors to this day.
Military hardware rarely uses off the shelf unless there is a dire need. so claiming equal performance is questionable.
Jura The idiot
General
Hunter is huge. Looks like it'll equal the weapons bay capacity of Su-57. If it can have equal range since it's higher lift, lower drag frame and single engine consumption rate may allow it to, this drone could really make a great "wingman". Doubt it could catch up to Su-57 if it hits the throttle though.
This drone wingman concept is an old one but makes you wonder why J-20 and Su-57 pursuing this while F-22 and F-35 seem to want to head towards micro missiles as future developments. J-20's dark sword should also be huge. If the mockup is accurate, it'll be almost as long as J-20 itself.
This drone wingman concept is an old one but makes you wonder why J-20 and Su-57 pursuing this while F-22 and F-35 seem to want to head towards micro missiles as future developments. J-20's dark sword should also be huge. If the mockup is accurate, it'll be almost as long as J-20 itself.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Technology gap between Russia is USA is like in the 80s, Russians can make 90(maybe 45 ) nm, the USA van make 12 (maybe 7) nm.
It translated in the 80s/90s/00s in 20-100 fold performance difference for the same cost.
So, in the 80s an USA missile guidance computer was 2 kg, for a cost of 50k $ , the equivalent of it at the Soviets was 200 kg, for the cost of 5 million $..
These days it translate to single (maybe double)digit percentage weight and cost differences.
Means any advantage in semiconductor manufacturing doesn't translate into advantage in the radar/sensor/communication / avionics.
Brumby
Major
The overall conversation about technological gap imo is rather moot because the underlying difference between the encrypted communication link with the SU-57 and that of the stealthy MADL link with the F-35 is entirely different in its effects. The SU-57 is not stealthy in comparison to the F-35 or the F-22. I estimate that the APG-81 can pick up a SU-57 at a range of between 150 to 170 kms. In other words, it cannot easily hide itself against modern sensors and hence the notion of stealthy communications is rather redundant. In contrast, the F-35 which is meant to operate stealthily and stealth com link is necessarily part and parcel of that package.
This leads me to question the overall utility of encrypted com link planned for the SU-57. Any adversary that plans to take on the SU-57 likely knows its presence. The primary objective of any ECM against it is in denial or disruption to its com link and not to read its messages. LOL. There are typically two primary defensive features available for communication security and that is detection and jam resistance. The former is via LPI and LPD features but since the SU-57 is not decisively stealthy, the underlying platform itself is a giveaway. That leaves bandwidth frequency that may offer some degree of jam resistance. Since we don't know what frequency it operates in we can't make any reasonable determination. Clearly encryption doesn't help.