Russian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

gelgoog said:

Not really. If you are talking about the Tornado-G then you input the target coordinates in the unit inside the vehicle cab and it takes care of aiming for you.

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But we're not talking about Tornado-G. We're talking about Grad variants which are all realistically going to be produced and manufactured until the end of time.



And this isn't the only relic of the past that's not being modernized. Russia has the capability, it should do it.

What do you think the Tornado-G is? It is an upgraded Grad system with new launch vehicle and rockets but also 122mm.
It is automated and the rockets have twice the range of older Grad because of composite casing and more modern propellant.

HighGround said:

But we're not talking about Tornado-G. We're talking about Grad variants which are all realistically going to be produced and manufactured until the end of time.

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And this isn't the only relic of the past that's not being modernized. Russia has the capability, it should do it.

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A rock still kill... low tech weapons are reliable, easy to produce, easy to maintain but also cheap. Yeah you can have all the bell and whistle but if you bring number with it is way better.

Having all your stuff at the high end means that you are in a nice mess when attrition is happening.

gelgoog said:

What do you think the Tornado-G is? It is an upgraded Grad system with new launch vehicle and rockets but also 122mm.
It is automated and the rockets have twice the range of older Grad because of composite casing and more modern propellant.

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Tornado-G isn't a replacement for Grad. It is effectively a different system with a different purpose because that's what it is in practice. Grads are still in service and will likely continue to be.

All I want is for them to get rid of that ridiculous analog aiming tool and get it automated. I don't know if you've ever seen one in action, but it can be quite time consuming to aim it.

Atomicfrog said:

A rock still kill... low tech weapons are reliable, easy to produce, easy to maintain but also cheap. Yeah you can have all the bell and whistle but if you bring number with it is way better.

Having all your stuff at the high end means that you are in a nice mess when attrition is happening.

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Automating the aiming mechanism shouldn't be prohibitively expensive.

HighGround said:

Tornado-G isn't a replacement for Grad. It is effectively a different system with a different purpose because that's what it is in practice. Grads are still in service and will likely continue to be.

All I want is for them to get rid of that ridiculous analog aiming tool and get it automated. I don't know if you've ever seen one in action, but it can be quite time consuming to aim it.




Automating the aiming mechanism shouldn't be prohibitively expensive.

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Yes some goodies could be added, or even the capacity to launch preprogrammed guided rockets maybe for old grad.

You need to had electronic levels, actuators, more hydraulics etc. All these nice goodies are way more prone to dirt, blast, shrapnels, electronic warfare for computer, etc.

Still... a rock is less prone to stop working. Maybe it's less nice and more crude but it will do is job. They are using freakin old rapira howitzer... zsu-23-2 on mtlb... I'm clearly not seen an analog aiming tools on a brand new grad to be a problem.

Atomicfrog said:

Yes some goodies could be added, or even the capacity to launch preprogrammed guided rockets maybe for old grad.

You need to had electronic levels, actuators, more hydraulics etc. All these nice goodies are way more prone to dirt, blast, shrapnels, electronic warfare for computer, etc.

Still... a rock is less prone to stop working. Maybe it's less nice and more crude but it will do is job. They are using freakin old rapira howitzer... zsu-23-2 on mtlb... I'm clearly not seen an analog aiming tools on a brand new grad to be a problem.

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Which is fine when Russia is cleaning out inventory to get munitions on to the front. It is a problem when we are looking at future platforms or new production.

The Grad needs to be replaced. Making a cheap MLRS that's a bit more modernized shouldn't be this hard.

HighGround said:

Which is fine when Russia is cleaning out inventory to get munitions on to the front. It is a problem when we are looking at future platforms or new production.

The Grad needs to be replaced. Making a cheap MLRS that's a bit more modernized shouldn't be this hard.

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They are not producing new 'old' Grads for the heck of it and the decision to produce them again is in no doubt, wasn't made in a vaccuum. I won't second guess those decisions made by those in the driver's seat. These old Grads are proving themselves in battle as durable, reliable and available. Perhaps the lack of delicate electronics helps in the muddy battlefield and using the old manual aiming system, you can already leverage on existing trained skills. All this while keeping costs low. There's already a modernized Grad anyway as the Tornado G of which more and more are being used along with a modernized Smerch called Tornado-S.

There is likely all the existing machinery and tooling to produce classic Grads that still work and can be utilized to add to the inventory.

It is pretty obvious the problem here is cost. They are basically mounting Grad systems on pickup trucks.
This is similar to systems seen in Syria.

The video actually shows multiple systems. The legacy Grad, the Tornado-G, and newer systems which are meant to be cheaper and more mobile albeith with shorter range. The video shows the Grad and Tornado-G at times, but the topic it is talking about is the newer cheaper systems.


This system seems to be fully automated and digitized. It uses the newer short 122mm rockets. The thing is, with the increases in capability given to the Grad in its Tornado-G form with composite casing and more energetic propellant, this new system likely ends up having similar range and capabilities to the original Grad but can be placed in a much lighter weight platform. I mean just look at it, this is a two axle truck, instead of the three axle truck you typically see used with the Grad.

Then you have this system mounted on regular pickups, which looks similar to systems seen in Syria.


It is basically a way to provide cheap mobile harassment fire.

The new cheap Grads makes counter battery a hell. You see a swarm of rockets in your radar but the source can be Classic Grad, Tornado-G, New Cheap Grad, or Pickup Grad. You are facing an even more distributed network that's easier to shoot and scoot all day. A single HIMARS rocket may cost a lot more than a Grad on a pickup. This can further ensure the survivability of the more expensive systems like Tornado-G.

Lately Grads have greatly increased their value being the prime vehicle in the use of incendiaries.

So when they're gonna make their own APKWS ?.

I wonder tho if 122mm could have enough room for things like GLONASS INS.