Rumoured "mini-nuke/diesel" Submarine SSK-N(?) thread

[tphuang]

More guesswork

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So I think most of this article is well explored, if we ignore the speculated Russian assistance related stuff.

I personally did not spend time looking through the thread to see and understand just the type of reactor, efficiency and power generation. His number of 1.3MWe pretty much lines up with what some of what had estimated that they would need.

I think he underestimates just how great China's Lithium ion battery tech is and the charging tech behind that. Using Kilo as a basis for how long it would take mini nuclear reactor to recharge battery pack doesn't make sense to me.

I would've liked to have seen something from the article on how using such a smaller reactor with battery affects noise level compared to Stirling AIP sub. We've done our own discussions on which really noise making components are still present on such a system, but Chris has pretty good knowledge of sub reactor tech, so I think he would have good insight here.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

I have said it long ago and I will say it again, the mini nuclear sub SSKN will be a game changer. It will become the primary submarine type and delegate other types of submarines obsolete.

Traditional SSK will be a budget option only. Big nuclear SSN will stay but delegated to specialized roles. Most of the budget would shift into SSKN.

SSN will stay for these roles:

• High magazine depth for strikes
• Carry large high end warhead
• long range long endurance submersible cruisers

Besides these roles, the primary combat duty will be performed by SSKN, as well as bulk of the budget.

No, not really. China didn't expand Huludao to have 4 times more construction bays for future PLAN SSNs than the US have with Newport News and Electric Boat combined just so they can procure more SSK-Ns than SSNs.

Despite the nuclear "addition" on the SSK-N, the difference in characteristics and capabilities of SSK-Ns (which should displace ~3000-4000+ tons submerged) versus SSNs (which typically displace twice as heavy or more, i.e. ~8000-10000+ tons submerged) is actually vast.

You could even say that the SSK-Ns are pretty much the pinnacle of the SSK-species development. That still wouldn't make the SSK-Ns as capable as (or even equivalent to) the SSNs that warrants replacing the SSNs for many combat and non-combat missions, however.

 

[Gloire_bb]

I have said it long ago and I will say it again, the mini nuclear sub SSKN will be a game changer. It will become the primary submarine type and delegate other types of submarines obsolete.

Why? SSKN is not "smaller SSN".
Depending on execution, it either a smaller SSN, or combines downsides of both SSK and SSN, solving SSK issues, but without becoming true SSN.

 

[para80]

There's at least a distinct possibility also this is a one off to evaluate the concept. Both the Soviet and US submarine fleets included many one offs and experimental designs. Its far too early to draw sweeping conclusions from this, even ignoring how we have next to no information on its configuration.

 

[tphuang]

it's not a one off experiment design imo. This design makes much sense given China's experience now with small reactors and electric propulsion technology.

Conventional subs are just useless against USN outside of ambushing role.

They can be fully replaced by UUVs in the future.

 

[wuguanhui]

No, not really. China didn't expand Huludao to have 4 times more construction bays for future PLAN SSNs than the US have with Newport News and Electric Boat combined just so they can procure more SSK-Ns than SSNs.

Despite the nuclear "addition" on the SSK-N, the difference in characteristics and capabilities of SSK-Ns (which should displace ~3000-4000+ tons submerged) versus SSNs (which typically displace twice as heavy or more, i.e. ~8000-10000+ tons submerged) is actually vast.

You could even say that the SSK-Ns are pretty much the pinnacle of the SSK-species development. That still wouldn't make the SSK-Ns as capable as (or even equivalent to) the SSNs that warrants replacing the SSNs for many combat and non-combat missions, however.

I think it really depends on the cost. Is the SSK-N substantially cheaper than a SSN?

Because if it is, then perhaps we'll see these mini nuke reactors migrate to surface ships too.

 

[W20]

"the mini nuclear sub SSKN will be a game changer"

Yes, exactly

Guam will be, so to speak, on the shore of a lake in the interior of China, and SSN will be in charge of missions outside the lake.

 

[AndrewS]

I think it really depends on the cost. Is the SSK-N substantially cheaper than a SSN?

Because if it is, then perhaps we'll see these mini nuke reactors migrate to surface ships too.

The mini-nuke reactors just don't have enough power available.

On the Destroyers, the gas turbines are rated at 28MW each. Their electrical diesels are at 5MW each
On the Frigates, the diesel engines are at 20MW each

 

[tphuang]

"the mini nuclear sub SSKN will be a game changer"

Yes, exactly

Guam will be, so to speak, on the shore of a lake in the interior of China, and SSN will be in charge of missions outside the lake.

Guam is still quite far. without knowing how much interior space and crew size is required, we simply don't know how long of deployment it can make. Can it travel to Guam and back, probably. But if you are looking for it to hand around there and track shipping, then that would depend on how much provision they can carry.

 

[AndrewS]

Guam is still quite far. without knowing how much interior space and crew size is required, we simply don't know how long of deployment it can make. Can it travel to Guam and back, probably. But if you are looking for it to hand around there and track shipping, then that would depend on how much provision they can carry.

I think we can expect SSKN endurance of at least 1 month, given what SSKs are typically capable of.

That would mean:

1 week to reach Guam at 10 knots
2 weeks patrol
1 week to return

I think that is workable, although more endurance would be better.

The bigger problem is that SSKNs currently would struggle to disengage after an attack and evade airborne patrol aircraft.
That will only change once China has something like air superiority in the Guam area.