Religious and/or ethnic issues on ships

Brumby

Brumby

Major
taxiya said:
The Muslim food issue in PLAN is no more than, say, vegetarian servicemen onboard of a USN aircraft carrier
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taxiya said:
I asked a Muslim college of mine about the food issue, she told me it is not really a religious thing as she never visited a mosque to pray, but it's just she has never eaten pork in her life and she just dislike the smell of it.
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That is clearly a mischaracterisation of the issue and what "halal" means to a Muslim. It is certainly a religious thing and not confined simply to the issue of pork. Pork is specifically forbidden because their scriptures tell them that evil spirits were cast into swines and hence they are considered unclean. Other meat like chicken needs to be killed in a certain prescribed manner by a Muslim after speaking certain prayers to be considered "halal". The "halal" issue is a big thing with Muslims because it is a religious issue.
 
Hyperwarp

Hyperwarp

Captain
Simply put Halal and Haram are like Acceptable and Unacceptable/Prohibited. It is not just food. Alcohol, Tobacco or any kind of narcotics are Haram. Earning money through interest is Haram. Proper Islamic banking is based on profit sharing and not earning through interest and so on. They also cannot do business with arms dealers, and many others. It is a deep subject and not eating Pork is one small fragment.
 
S

schlieffen

New Member
The Muslim population in China is highly diverse. Not only does it consist of more than a dozen different ethnic groups, but their level of adherence to Islamic practice also varies significantly. Many are Muslims in name only. Due to the special privileges offered to ethnical minorities many people are inclined to register themselves and their children as Hui (Han Muslims) for the slightest of family heritage.

Generally speaking, only the Uyghur and Hui people in Xinjiang, Qinghai and Ningxia follow Islamic protocols strictly. Even that is not universal, as a significant part of Uyghur population is also highly secular - obviously an Uyghur communist party member cannot be a loyal Muslim at the same time. So the real impact of the halal issue is fairly small. As the PLA only drafts a very small portion of suitably aged male every year, there is really no reason for them to forcibly draft anyone who cannot adopt.


As far as I can tell, the actually policy in the PLA is one of loose accommodation – we don’t serve you pork, but don’t ask for the kitchen or the food processing to be strictly Halal. Halal cafeterias are sometimes available in big institute such as a high-level HQ, a main base or an aircraft carrier but that is more a comforting and PR thing.
 
T

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Brumby said:
That is clearly a mischaracterisation of the issue and what "halal" means to a Muslim. It is certainly a religious thing and not confined simply to the issue of pork. Pork is specifically forbidden because their scriptures tell them that evil spirits were cast into swines and hence they are considered unclean. Other meat like chicken needs to be killed in a certain prescribed manner by a Muslim after speaking certain prayers to be considered "halal". The "halal" issue is a big thing with Muslims because it is a religious issue.
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I know someone will say something like this, however that is my fault for using the word "Muslim", instead I should have used "ethic Uighur or Kazakh or Hui" etc.

As I have said in my previous post, the Chinese 清真餐厅 is NOT strictly Halal cafeteria in the Islamic laws. So Halal is out of the question. As l have also said in the previous post, these servicemen are not religious, so not really Muslim, they're only ethnic Hun, Uighur or Kazakh. Chinese state staff including soldiers CAN NOT be religious, the first thing they do when recruiting a soldier is 政审, political screening extending to ones grandparents. It may have been loosened a bit since my time but I believe the individual and family background is surely to be checked. So again Halal is out of the question. I remind you again that the Xinjiang governor is a Uighur communist, not a Muslim, not following any Islamic rules including Halal practice but may choose not eating Pork, and probably drinks alcohol like some of my Hun friends do.

so there is nothing religious on board Liaoning.

Is this clear to you?
 
T

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
schlieffen said:
The Muslim population in China is highly diverse. Not only does it consist of more than a dozen different ethnic groups, but their level of adherence to Islamic practice also varies significantly. Many are Muslims in name only. Due to the special privileges offered to ethnical minorities many people are inclined to register themselves and their children as Hui (Han Muslims) for the slightest of family heritage.

Generally speaking, only the Uyghur and Hui people in Xinjiang, Qinghai and Ningxia follow Islamic protocols strictly. Even that is not universal, as a significant part of Uyghur population is also highly secular - obviously an Uyghur communist party member cannot be a loyal Muslim at the same time. So the real impact of the halal issue is fairly small. As the PLA only drafts a very small portion of suitably aged male every year, there is really no reason for them to forcibly draft anyone who cannot adopt.


As far as I can tell, the actually policy in the PLA is one of loose accommodation – we don’t serve you pork, but don’t ask for the kitchen or the food processing to be strictly Halal. Halal cafeterias are sometimes available in big institute such as a high-level HQ, a main base or an aircraft carrier but that is more a comforting and PR thing.
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Thanks the comment, that is exactly I was trying to convey.

In case of Halal in HQ, the thing is that although HQ can afford a Halal cafeteria, there is nobody there demanding it, or daring to demand it, as nobody is supposed to be a real Muslim higher up.
 
Deino

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
In order to keep the Liaoning / Carrier-thread clean ....

Please continue Your discussion here.

Deino
 
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nemo

Junior Member
Is there really a need for a dedicated halal cafeteria? Meal in warships is likely to be in shifts, to better utilize the space and manpower. So they can just dedicate one of the shift to be halal and be done with it -- and to make it obvious, change the name plate during hala meal service.
 
TerraN_EmpirE

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
I for a Time had an employer who was a practicing Ahmadis Muslim, and from Chatting with him about it What I learned is that Halal is more than just No pork, much like how Kosher is more than just You cannot eat Pork In fact Muslums are free to eat Kosher has although there are some difrences the over all act is considered similar enough to get a free pass.
What is critical is not just what animal is butchered for Halal but to have the animal be killed in a set ritual with a Prayers given in a set manor.
For The Atheist this matters none at, for a buddhist there may or may not be a issue. but For a practicing muslim that strict ritual must take place. So It's likely that this Specialised cafeteria is using a unique food stock and kitchen to prevent mixing of regular crew meals stock that could have been killed in non Halal manor and meals that are in accordance with Halal.
 
D

delft

Brigadier
OT
In the Netherlands Halal butchers are more widespread than Kosher ones and I have heard about Jews buying Halal meat.
 
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