QTS-11 OICW. 5.8 mm Heavy and 20 mm Air Burst.

I had thought the QTS-11 would equip a few soldiers within a squad, but all the photos so far depict it being used exclusively by a four- or five-man fire team, with each soldier possibly linked to a digital battlefield management system. It now looks more likely to me that this is how the QTS-11 is intended to be used.

A member of the fire team: new ballistic helmet, tactical vest, throat mic, radio, and helmet-mounted display.


The fire team in action:




An earlier photo of the fire team:

Hongjian mentioned that this was a recon team. If the XM1106 can reach 40mm lethality levels with 25mm ammunition, Beijing is probably better off moving towards a 30mm size in the long-term.

Those look like promotional shots from the same series as the XI visit. so hard to say really. The later one might have more barring but with only a 4 man team.
The radio n the vest looks short range likely meant for use inside the Squad and not long range. the HUD can be plugged into the Rifle to allow shooting from behind cover.
Then again it might be that fr the moment the ZH05 is just the only weapon in the PLA armory that is ready for these and they plan to retro fit conventional weapons later. That was in fact what the US Army was thinking very very early in the Land warrior program. That the XM29 and versions where in would be the Land warrior in total, but that was also thinking that they could break up the XM29 into a XM25 like launcher and a XM8 like carbine that could be topped with the Digital fire control system which also served as a digital camera, laser rangefinder, GPS receiver, laser designator and rifle scope.

@TE: my issue with you is the NATO-invincible line. A lot of posters here tend towards the "PLA" or "Russian Armed Forces" invincble line, but none of these armies are invulnerable, and while they have strengths and weaknesses, these don't come with the army label and are based on their present conditions. I still resolutely oppose your concept that flak jackets and their descendants render people proof against grenades; they may absorb a substantial amount of shrapnel and significantly reduce their lethal radius, but they do not negate them entirely.

That said, I've been unable to find hardened evidence of exactly how effective soft body armor is versus shrapnel. I can definitely point you to the case where a marine attempted to throw himself on a grenade using a flak helmet to absorb its shock, but died soon afterwards, or the case of a Navy SEAL who threw himself upon a grenade and died.

As to next-generation grenades, US airburst 40mm is still in the works right now, and probably won't be ready for a few more years. The Israeli system to which it is related is about a pound and a half heavier than the QTS-11, though.

At this point, though, I'd be interested in figuring out the exact energies of a QTS-11 20mm grenade. Soft body armor is generally proof against pistol rounds, which have a KE below 1 kJ.

For demonstration, however, let's look at an older US grenade.



In this case, the total energies in a M-67 grenade at detonation are about 970 kJ. Split even among 100 fragments (9.7 kJ per fragment), this is enough to penetrate soft body armor at point-blank range, explaining the fate of the poor marine who tried to become the first person to survive throwing himself on a grenade. According to the Federation of American Scientists, however, the energy fall-off drops to only 483 joules, well within soft armor protectiveness, at 100 meters. Using their equation, though, and with 100 fragments, at 10 meters, you still have 7 kJ, and at 20 meters, you still have 5 kJ of energy.

Actually, a correction. Type IIIA is the limit for soft body armors at this point, and it's capable of stopping 2 kJ worth of energy fired from a pistol, which often lack AP construction. So it's safe to assume that soft armor can survive 2-3 kJ of projectile energy from a grenade ball bearing. The next step is to estimate exactly how much energy a QTS-11 grenade fragment has, and how much range it'd take for it to drop to the 3 kJ level where soft body armor can protect against it.

Interestingly enough, if you read up on the FAS information on grenade velocities, it's actually the ratio of explosive to payload that determines fragment energies, not the size of the catridge. It makes sense, since explosives lose force in a non-linear way. So it's theoretically possible to have a 10mm grenade that can penetrate soft body armor, except that the number of fragments delivered will be quite small and it will take a substantial amount of 10mm grenades to inflict real casualties.

Inst said:

probably won't be ready for a few more years.

Click to expand...

That is one major factor here. The Zh05 has yet to make any sign beyond small numbers.
For the ZH05 you need to issue the whole system
The Weapon, The rounds and spare parts. That is not going to be fielded fast. We only see images of these in special cases because of the simple fact, they are special cases. These are Unicorns.
I am not sure about the Israeli system you mention I can only imagine the MRPS The last Hard data I have on that though is 2011, and 2013, Electronics have changed a lot in 5 years. The last I saw the MPRS system was mostly a optic of under 1 pound in weight and adding those to the host weapon. So factoring in the weight of a M4A1 with a M320 and yeah it would be a little more than 5kg.
for the 40mm the weapon is already in service, the 40mm launcher. Whether that launcher is a M320/AG-C/AG36, GL1/FN40GL/MK13, Milkor Mk1, or IWI GL40 Those systems are in the field. We are then talking about adding a a FCS unit and the rounds themselves.
And those are just one family of options.

These are near Milestone B, Assuming all goes well and continues then a 2019 Milestone C meaning if all goes well second Quarter 2019 production. Sounds a long way off but IT probably about the sametime ZH05 starts major movement. Other than the XM25's short field testing the most successful of the OICW rifles. With K11 seemingly gone stealth
84mm Carl Gustav Airburst have been around for sometime to.


Next I am not saying that they are invincible, No one is. I am saying that we are dealing with a very small projectile that has limitations of size, size of the amount of fragmentation, Size in the amount of explosive, size in the size of the circuitry needed to allow airburst This in turn means you have a reduced casualty effect. Not just in fragmentation but also Shock wave effect. a smaller bang all around. The issue is how much electronics are in the round vs Explosive a 20mm round is going to enharnetly have less room for the explosive. and being blunt all the fancy pre fragmentation would be out too.
Soft armor has I have been saying is designed for the fragmentation effects of these. So it's a question of either how close you can land the shot or how much bang you can squeeze from the shot.

If you're dealing with a very small projectile, the trick is, it's a grenade, not a rifle cartridge. There's fundamentally different physics involved, of which I have just become cognizant. The funny thing is, while the energies of a grenade scale up linearly with volume, the velocity of fragmentating projectiles do not. They remain constant, depending on the ratio of explosive to shrapnel.

The difference between a gun and a bomb is that with a gun, all of the explosive force of the propellant is concentrated by the metal tube to force a projectile in one direction. This allows scaling to enable the projectile to achieve even higher speeds. With a bomb, on the other hand, since your explosion is uncontained, the only thing that affects the physics of the weapon are the chemical properties of the explosive and the ratio of explosive to shrapnel. You cannot exceed the maximum speed created by the explosive's pressure.

What you get with a larger grenade, as opposed to a smaller grenade, then, is a greater amount of fragmentation and shrapnel being pushed out at the target. This results in an increase in damage, but the scaling factor is linear: a volume of 20mm grenades equal to 40mm grenades, with the same explosive-fragmentation ratio, deals equal, if not more damage. Put another way, a group of grenadiers loaded with 20mm grenades can put out a volume of fire equal to a 40mm grenade.

Think about it like atomic weapons. The largest nuclear bomb ever launched was the Russian Tsar Bomba, but the 100 MT device was never mass-produced. It was a demonstration of technological prowess, only. In fact, even with ICBMs, most use MIRVs, or submunitions, which employ a greater number of smaller warheads, which, despite being lower in total yield, are greater in destructive potential as the total area under effect increases.

The problem with downscaling your grenades is not a direct problem of power, but an indirect one. As your grenades become smaller, the quantity of electronics and casing relative to the explosive increases, reducing your penetrating potential. But I am trying to get better stats on this matter.

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(Edit: second paragraph is added)

For the Neopup's 20x42mm cartridge, you are looking at a total weight of about 160 grams and a projectile weight of 110 grams. The figures we do have for the Chinese 20mm round (length unknown so far) show a figure of 85 grams, which is rather low and may instead be an explosive weight instead of a projectile weight.

Inst said:

show a figure of 85 grams

Click to expand...

The XM1018 from the XM29 was described as "The 20mm HE grenade is about the diameter of a nickel, measures 3 5/8" long and weighs 3 1/4 oz."
3.25oz is 92.13 Grams so it seems like it might actually be the full weight of the round. if so then it might be closer to the 20x28mm of the XM29 then the 20x30mm of the K11 which was 100g.