QBZ-191 service rifle family
- Thread starter Blitzo
- Start date
The PAP has formally fielded lethal underbarrel grenade launchers (UGLs) as standard equipment. Previously, due to the nature of their domestic security missions, PAP units equipped with QBZ-95/95-1 rifles were issued only anti-riot UGLs instead of lethal variants.
Before I joined this forum, I always thought the PAP received the newest and latest equipment first to test them out. Over the years, I learned this was the opposite. That viewpoint probably stems from the PAP buying third-party gear that tended to look better than the main stuff back in the day. My question is, what unit or group gets to test and use all the newest equipment first? It ain't the PLAGF, right?
MwRYum
Major
Should not be understood this way.
While quite a lot of PAP outfit were PLAGF to begin with, PAP in its way has more leeway in obtaining after-market gear due to their mission/role in law enforcement missions, whereas PLAGF by its mission and mandate has less freedom in this regard. Nevertheless, feedback funneled back into the system, like how police outfits funneled similar feedback.
In the end, PAP and PLAGF has different mission profiles and mandates.
No. Otherwise we will see reports about it across the Internet. As of now, only the Type 56 and some Type 97’s are being used over there.
I would hazard a guess that if any 191s were to make it to Ukraine, it would likely be chambered in 545, meaning that would be very unlikely to happen any time soon as the PLA is still in the process of a full transition to the 191.
Plus it would difficult to deny it as official support if large numbers of full auto 191s show up on the battlefield. also if I recall correctly the only variant calibre displayed so far was a 556 version. I might be wrong but I don’t remember seeing a 191 chambered in 545 displayed in any arms trade show.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Highly HIGHLY unlikely.
First is the political issue. Thus far the CCP has been officially staying out of the conflict. European NATO and the U.S. have not exactly been lock step but both have been happy to use Economic pressure. This far the PRC has been known to be sending non lethal aid.
Second is the logistics issue. The 191 uses a highly proprietary ammunition type that Russia doesn’t.
Russian military, Militia and North Korean troops are already using a wide mix of predominantly Soviet calibers ranging from WW2 to the modern era with the addition of occasional captured or indigenous clones of western weapons to boot. It’s a Logisticians nightmare of what unit uses this model of Ak and that ammunition vs that unit with that one. To get QBZ191s in the mix would require a whole new training plan for the unit to use it and another logistical plan. Even issuing export models CS/LR42, CS/LR43 & CS/LR44 would still require training and logistics changes. Small parts cleaning kicks, training manuals in Russian or Korean, special magazines. Plus the rifles would have to be tuned for Russian ammunition.
The CS/LR43 was at the latest shows and uses AK47 type 7.62x39mm That ammunition type is still in Russian military service with the AK15 adopted to be the “Modern Rifle” for it. Though in practice AK15s often right next to AKMs from the 60s and AK103 from the 00s.
On the other side of the conflict 7.62x39mm has often been integrated into Western arms as it’s the most common Warsaw pact caliber and is found very commonly in Europe, Africa and Asia. This was as the Soviets just about gave AK factories away in the Cold War. If not given then it was the case that a number of countries would just clone the AK on their own.
However The Soviets were not exactly very good in standardization. Much of the production outside of Izmash in regards to the AK series was based off reverse engineering and trial and error. This is why the rail and accessories industry of the AK is often going to have a gunsmith and hand fitting to make it work. It also means that two AKs from different manufacturers often don’t parts exchange. The same holds true for AK ammunition. 7.62x39mm from Chinese manufacturers will probably work in Cs/Lr43 it may not work at all for an AK12 or AKM. Or it may damage the gun. Or it might work.
That’s one of the things the AR15 does well. It’s hard to find an AR15 that is so out of spec and tolerances that parts don’t interchange between makers despite being from completely different countries.
If China send weapons to Russia, the first thing we will see is the type 66 howitzer and 152mm shell, not the 191 produced specifically for Russian caliber or even 5.8mm. Rifles performance won't make that much of a difference, but the production and logistics are a lot more troublesome