Proposal for a US Navy Ticonderoga AEGIS CG replacement

bd popeye · Jun 10, 2007

Graet thread guys.

There are studies suggesting that using one of the same type of reactors powering the new CVNs would make since in a new CG or DDG if they want the more exotic weapons on those vessels.

I can't see the USN installing reactors on any surface besides a CVN. Why??

There is simply a lack of nuclear power trained personnel. That is one of the reason the CGN's were laid up. A lack of nuclear power trained persons.

Well why is that???. It is very difficult to recruit persons to be an enlisted nuke power Techs....In fact USN recruiters get extra credit for recuiting nuke power enlisted techs.

Jeff Head · Jun 10, 2007

bd popeye said:
Graet thread guys.

I can't see the USN installing reactors on any surface besides a CVN. Why??

There is simply a lack of nuclear power trained personnel. That is one of the reason the CGN's were laid up. A lack of nuclear power trained persons.

Well why is that???. It is very difficult to recruit persons to be an enlisted nuke power Techs....In fact USN recruiters get extra credit for recuiting nuke power enlisted techs.

This has been true.

In the end, if the US Navy wants the nuclear techs and personnel onboard those ships, they will have to pay them accordingly. rRght now I know the sub nuc techs pay are offered huge re-signing bonuses to try and make up for what those trained people would otherwise make on the outside over they years they stay in. They will have to do the same thing. I believe they already do for the carriers too.

Anyhow, I believe it is going to take nucs, short of those advancements I spoke of in the other post, to allow for the elctrical energy to make the types of weapons possible on those vessels...and in the end, the US Navy will want those wepaons once they are available.

We shall see.

Jeff Head · Jun 13, 2007

Tasman said:
IMk-38 Mod 2 gun system

Regarding the Mk-38 Mod 2 automatic 25mm gun. Here's a great article from last year about BAE delivering the system to the US Navy. Looks VERY good and is wahat I am proposing for the New Cruiser. Two of these, ples four 50-cals.

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BAE Systems said:
BAE Systems has received an additional order from the U.S. Navy to deliver 67, Mk 38 Mod 2 gun mounts to go aboard cruisers, destroyers and Landing Ship Transport Dock ships. The Mk 38 Mod 2 is a 25mm stabilized gun system that provides the last layer of ship protection. The system is highly autonomous and has an effective range of approximately 1 mile.

"The Mk 38 Mod 2 meets the U.S. Navy’s urgent need to improve the lethality and effectiveness of its ship self-protection systems," said Dave Lassek, vice president of Navy Program for BAE Systems. "This is the gun you want aboard your ship when you have an enemy threat coming in that has gotten past all the other protection systems."

Here's another article:

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BAE Systems delivered the first Mk 38 Mod 2 systems to the U.S. Navy the week of April 2, 2007. The systems will be delivered from spring 2007 through March 2008

They've been testing it aboard Ticonderoga cruisers, like seen in the pic below aboard the USS Port Royal, CG-73, so the fit onto this new cruiser is a natural IMHO.

Tasman · Jun 13, 2007

Jeff Head said:
Regarding the Mk-38 Mod 2 automatic 25mm gun. Here's a great article from last year about BAE delivering the system to the US Navy. Looks VERY good and is wahat I am proposing for the New Cruiser. Two of these, ples four 50-cals.

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[qimg]http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/ORD_RWS_Mk38_Mod2_Right_lg.jpg[/qimg]

Here's another article:

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BAE Systems delivered the first Mk 38 Mod 2 systems to the U.S. Navy the week of April 2, 2007. The systems will be delivered from spring 2007 through March 2008

They've been testing it aboard Ticonderoga cruisers, like seen in the pic below aboard the USS Port Royal, CG-73, so the fit onto this new cruiser is a natural IMHO.

[qimg]http://www.jeffhead.com/aegisvesselsoftheworld/CG-73-PortRoyal-MK38Mod2Gun.jpg[/qimg]

Great pics Jeff.

It would be interesting to know what modifications, if any, have been made to the 25mm Rafael Typhoon, which the Mk 38 Mod 2 is based on. The gun seems ideal to meet close in threats. It is also being fitted in allied navies. For example, the original Typhoon is to be installed in RAN vessels, initially in the amphibious ships. The RAN is already using the Mini Typhoon, a 0.50 cal HMG in a RWS. This is currently being fitted to all RAN ships deploying to the Gulf. Manually operated HMGs are still fitted as these are cheap, plentiful, and take up less space and weight.

It is interesting to see the proliferation of close range weapons. It reminds me somewhat of the beginning of the last century when large numbers of close range quick fire guns were fitted to battleships and cruisers to deal with torpedo boats.

Cheers

Jeff Head · Jun 13, 2007

Tasman said:
Great pics Jeff.

Thanks...it is amazing how close the real life picture comes to the artists conception.

Tasman said:
It would be interesting to know what modifications, if any, have been made to the 25mm Rafael Typhoon, which the Mk 38 Mod 2 is based on. The gun seems ideal to meet close in threats. It is also being fitted in allied navies. For example, the original Typhoon is to be installed in RAN vessels, initially in the amphibious ships.

Well, the best description I found came from one of the BAE pages...as follows:

"As a spiral derivative of the Typhoon Mk 25 Weapon System developed by Rafael, the enhanced Mk 38 Mod 2 is the U.S. Navy's ORDALT choice to upgrade the Mk 38 25-mm Chain Gun. Designed for the mission of ship self-protection, the Mk 38 Mod 2 Stabilized Minor Caliber Gun system can be applied to a wide range of different ship classes and platform designs of 50 tons or greater displacement. The system's non-penetrating deck design allows for a variety of potential applications throughout hull and superstructure locations to optimize overall operational effectiveness.

The Mk 38 Mod 2 main weapon is the M242 Bushmaster 25-mm Chain Gun, a proven NATO standard auto cannon with 2.5 km range and selectable rates of fire. The M242 Bushmaster fires all USN-approved 25-mm ammunition at up to 180 rounds per minute, with the Mk 38 Mod 2 providing 168 rounds on-mount.

The Mk 38 Mod 2 system incorporates the service-proven Toplite electro-optical fire control system to optimize effective engagement of enemy targets during day, night and in all weather conditions. Toplite provides 4-axis gimbal stabilization, forward looking infra-red radar with three fields-of-view, a low contrast, low light level color television camera and an eye-safe laser range finder.

The Mk 38 Mod 2 provides for crew safe conditions with a remote operation console located in the Combat Information Center or in other protected ship structure. The operation console consists of the main control panel and a multi-function display that provides a single controller with simple operations in all modes.
"

Good stuff.

As of April, the first batch had been delievered to the US Navy. Nine US vessels already have them installed. I am glad to see it.

Here's a news release I found regaridng that:

BAE Systems April 4 said:
BAE SYSTEMS DELIVERS MK 38 MACHINE GUN SYSTEMS TO THE U.S. NAVY

MINNEAPOLIS – BAE Systems delivered the first of 67 Mk 38 Mod 2 Machine Gun Systems to the U.S. Navy this week. The systems will be delivered from spring 2007 through March 2008 and are planned for a variety of U.S. Navy platforms, including Guided Missile Cruisers, Landing Ship Docks, and DDG Class ships.

The Mk 38 Mod 2 is a 25mm, remotely controlled gun system that provides the U.S. Navy with a lethal weapon to fulfill the critical role of ship self-protection. The system, with an effective range of more than 2000 meters, is highly autonomous and is proven against multiple surface threats.

"The Mk 38 Mod 2 team has demonstrated exceptional technical skill and initiative,” said Commander LaPointe, project manager of the Naval Gunnery Project Office for Integrated Warfare Systems. "They have provided outstanding support to the program and are providing the warfighter with a more capable machine gun system."

Nine U.S. Naval ships currently have Mk 38 Mod 2 systems in service and have demonstrated excellent overall performance. The combined Mk 38 Mod 2 Government/contractor team recently completed a major upgrade to bring all mounts up to the current production configuration

Jeff Head · Jun 16, 2007

Tasman said:
Great pics Jeff.

It would be interesting to know what modifications, if any, have been made to the 25mm Rafael Typhoon, which the Mk 38 Mod 2 is based on.

It is interesting to see the proliferation of close range weapons. It reminds me somewhat of the beginning of the last century when large numbers of close range quick fire guns were fitted to battleships and cruisers to deal with torpedo boats.

Cheers

Here's another great pic of another Mk-38 Mod 2 out there on a Tico...armed and ready as the vessel enters a Phillipino port.

If you look close you can also see 50 cals manned fore on the bow, and fore on the aft gun deck.

Tasman · Jun 17, 2007

Jeff Head said:
Here's another grest pic of another Mk-38 Mod 2 out there on a Tico...armed and ready as the vessel enters a Pillipino port.

[qimg]http://www.jeffhead.com/aegisvesselsoftheworld/Mk-38 mod2 tico.jpg[/qimg]

If you look close you can also see 50 cals manned fore on the bow, and fore on the aft gun deck.

It seems that the USN is thinking along the same lines as you are for your proposed replacement cruiser so far as close in surface defence is concerned (i.e. 2x25mm Mk 38 Mod 2 plus 4x 50 cal HMG).

Cheers

Jeff Head · Jun 17, 2007

Tasman said:
It seems that the USN is thinking along the same lines as you are for your proposed replacement cruiser so far as close in surface defence is concerned (i.e. 2x25mm Mk 38 Mod 2 plus 4x 50 cal HMG).

Cheers

That weapon is an excellent choice for close in protection, being complimented by the 50 cals. I think they should have at least two of the Mk38 Mod 2 guns and eight 50 cals.

Looking at the vessels as armed in the various pics (and

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are some really good naval pics BTW), they all appear to have two twin fifties on the bow and two more on the aft deck. I would not be surprised to find that there were a couple of more on each side somewhere along the length of the vessel.

When you couple that with the 25mm guns, you have very signifcant and adequate close-in protection for any hostile action trying to either board, or more aptly, blow themselves up near or alongside the vessel.

That new South Korean missile boat could benefit from one.

Tasman · Jun 18, 2007

Jeff Head said:
That weapon is an excellent choice for close in protection, being complimented by the 50 cals. I think they should have at least two of the Mk38 Mod 2 guns and eight 50 cals.

Looking at the vessels as armed in the various pics (and
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
are some really good naval pics BTW), they all appear to have two twin fifties on the bow and two more on the aft deck. I would not be surprised to find that there were a couple of more on each side somewhere along the length of the vessel.

When you couple that with the 25mm guns, you have very signifcant and adequate close-in protection for any hostile action trying to either board, or more aptly, blow themselves up near or alongside the vessel.

That new South Korean missile boat could benefit from one.

hadn't realised that the USN was using twin mounted 50 cal MGs. Mounting the 50 cals as twins makes sense as it doubles the volume of fire for little increase in weight and none in space. As far as I know the RAN only uses single mounted 50 cals but it could also benefit from twins. We used to use twin mounted 50s on our old air sea rescue launches so there are probably some hidden in storage somewhere!

2x25mm Mod 38s and 8x.50s would certainly make life difficult aboard hostile small craft.

Cheers

bd popeye · Jun 19, 2007

hadn't realised that the USN was using twin mounted 50 cal MGs. Mounting the 50 cals as twins makes sense as it doubles the volume of fire for little increase in weight and none in space

Abosouletly!

Here are some USN pics of the twin .50 cal mounted on ships...all pics released to the public by the US Navy..

Proposal for a US Navy Ticonderoga AEGIS CG replacement

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