Potential PLANAF Carrier Aviation Alternatives

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
The longer the takeoff run, the more speed at the exit of the ski jump. This is why there is an extra takeoff point to port further back. It isn't often seen in use in these videos and others but I suspect that is on purpose, as most discussion in th west is based on the merits and otherwise of the forward launch positions. Aircraft using the aft launch point can probably lift off with a larger fuel or ordnance load, though still not as much as with catapult assistance.

The original Soviet plan was to build two Kuznetzovs before switching production to the larger Ulyanovsk class CVN, which was intended to have two steam catapults in the waist position. It is logical to assume that 'cats' would have been retrofitted to the first two ships in the late nineties, and that the existing fleet of SU-33s (and possibly the Mig-29Ks) may well have been designed from the start to have stressed airframes for catapult launching (as they have no nose tow bar they would presumably use the wire bridle method), requiring only to be fitted with the spools for the wire bridles. Otherwise the USSR would have had by the middle of the 90s three CVs unable to cross deck with each other, operating different types of aircraft with different launch methods. All available pictures of the Ulyanovsk design show the ski jump retained at the bow, for launching ready alert fighters presumably, but a closer look at the profile of the bow shows the ski jump not to be integral as in the Kuznetzov design, possibly allowing for the later removal and replacement by another pair of steam catapults.

Knowing where the USSR was heading may give a little insight as to where the PLAN may choose to go also.
 

Scratch

Captain
Those vids are short after the takeoff but I could notice what Obi Wan said.
Here's another one with a -29K on a Kuznetsov. Starts with several "touch and gos", then landing and takeoffs at the end. On time you can see the MiG starting from the aft port position.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
OK, this all makes sense. I won't be surprised if Russia eventually builds Ulyanovsk class CV/Ns -they have more $$$ now and their relations with the West are getting worse. They may also sell Kuznetsov to China as less capable carrier to complement Varyag- please quote me & post your reply here, if you will.
 
Last edited:

Scratch

Captain
Could rocket-assisted takeoff be a substitute for catapult-assisted takeoff? If so, this could be a cheaper alternative to catapults on PLAN's CVs!

If researed a bit. That rocket assisted take-off was popular just after WW II when the first turbojets weren't powerfull enough to get heavy loaden bombers into the air. But was dropped rather fast when the power output of engines increased.
Those "rockets" are rather small and I don't think really expensiv, howerever they generate a strong blast for sure. Don't know if that's a good thing on a carrier. But on the other hand, ABs of a Su-33 are already powerfull.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Originally Posted by BLUEJACKET
Could rocket-assisted takeoff be a substitute for catapult-assisted takeoff? If so, this could be a cheaper alternative to catapults on PLAN's CVs!

After WWII the USN pondered using rocket and large explosive charges in a controlled situation .They were to be installed in the catapult. Thankfully they opted for steam cats of British design.

The biggest problem I see is where to store the rocket charges. And the safe handling of them.
 

Sczepan

Senior Member
VIP Professional
... Most likely would be a twin seater enlarged twin engine J-10.
and
A question about that twin-seater point. Should a navalized J-10 actually be a twin-seater? Though, I can see that two crew members might be helpfull in strike roles when there are more threads to identify and targets to classify. Is it possible that there are two very similar naval J-10s like the F/A-18 E/F, a single-seater for A2A combat and a twin seater for strike roles and EW?
you ment a toy like this one?
 

Attachments

  • J10C1-Modell.jpg
    J10C1-Modell.jpg
    123.4 KB · Views: 50

BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
I just got a crazy idea- can anyone draw some pictures of H-6 bomber with folding wings on on a Chinese carrier? Theoreticaly it could probably land & takeoff from the angled deck!
 

Subetei

New Member
Registered Member
Given that China is new to carrier operations, and any potential carrier will have a smaller airgroup than a US carrier (and the carrier will itself be smaller), reducing the number of different aircraft on the carrier will be of great importance for training and logistics reasons (bd Popeye comments?).

As such the best immediate solution for China would appear to be Su-33 and Su-33UB. This is due to the roles which need to be addressed: Su-33 for Air Superiority, and Su-33UB for Strike, AEW and Tanker. In addition the aircraft will be easier to cross-train and support logistically than a carrier version of the J-10!

Of course in the longer term, a carrier version of the Su-47 would be ideal, because:

It offer stealth capability,
better short field performance, and
Better approach speed handling


These aircraft are in production and proven off Varyag class carriers, ans STOBAR carriers at that.
 
Top