PLAN Type 035/039/091/092 Submarine Thread

[tphuang]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

If you notice closely at the tower, there are two of them. Look closely and notice that the two subs are in the water---which means they're not under construction, they already are constructed. They appear in the process of being fitted, and I have some doubts these two subs are the same as the ones in the December photos.

sorry, I don't see it, but it could very well be that we have another Yuan from Wuhan that is already undergoing sea test by the time the December photos came out. Do you have any recollection on how long the Song subs spent on this stage?

 

[crobato]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

There are two structures that were erected to cover the sides of the sail, which looked like two sails to me. So its really just one sub. I don't know in this particular stage how long will the sub stay there. Its not under construction, if it is it will be in the dry dock, not floating on the water. The sub has finished construction, but it is in the stage where other equipment and stuff are being fitted. The sub is high in the water, indicating it does not have much weight to sink.

The 094s seem to indeed spend quite a while in the fitting stage, since the GE photo was taken in early May, but the clear shots of the 094 is about summer or late summer. Though I can't say if any of the 094 in that shot happened to be the third sub in the GE picture, whose tail was sticking out of the assembly area ready to move out.

 

[tphuang]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

a lot of pictures coming out on the "second Yuan" recently, some of them pay just be repeat of others, so I will just randomly post 5 of the ones I downloaded.

 

[kw64]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

I heard from the Chinese internet that the new AIP propulsion system fitted on newer Yuan class is made from the technologies bought from Australia. Is there any truth to this? I found it to be unlikely that Australia would sell such military technology to China, but on the other hand the PLAN had some serious difficulties with the AIP system before, but all the sudden it starts to appear on their submarines, seems like too big of a leap forward to me.

 

[tphuang]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

I heard from the Chinese internet that the new AIP propulsion system fitted on newer Yuan class is made from the technologies bought from Australia. Is there any truth to this? I found it to be unlikely that Australia would sell such military technology to China, but on the other hand the PLAN had some serious difficulties with the AIP system before, but all the sudden it starts to appear on their submarines, seems like too big of a leap forward to me.

the answer to this question shouldn't be so hard. Does any Australian subs use AIP? Would China get export permits on this after the 022 fiasco? And how does the performance of the Chinese AIP engine compared to the other contemporary ones.

 

[crobato]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

I heard from the Chinese internet that the new AIP propulsion system fitted on newer Yuan class is made from the technologies bought from Australia. Is there any truth to this? I found it to be unlikely that Australia would sell such military technology to China, but on the other hand the PLAN had some serious difficulties with the AIP system before, but all the sudden it starts to appear on their submarines, seems like too big of a leap forward to me.

I think you're mixing up the news stories. You're confusing it with the recent article on the Type 022 where the catamaran hull design is from an Australian company.

The AIP on the Yuan is allegedly Stirling cycle, which is a closed cycle piston engine, and the only Stirling cycle subs in the world operational are Swedish. The Japanese Soryu also uses Stirling cycle and had help from Kockums.

As a note each European nation has their own AIP preference. The Germans are going for fuel cells, while the French is going after MESMA or closed cycled steam turbine.

Did the Swedes help the Chinese on this? I don't know, perhaps not. Just because the PLAAF flies the KJ-200 does not mean that the phase array it holds is derived from the similar Erieye.

Stirling cycle engines have been around for a long time, since he concept was invented in the 19th Century. You can read more about the concept here.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[crobato]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

There is a new Yuan pic out posted by Xinhui in the CDF that does not look like its in Shanghai, but its a whooping over 400k to be posted in this forum. Maybe someone can find an under 200k version from the Chinese forums. I suspect that this Yuan, belonging to the new batch given the visual details, is located at the ESF sub base in Xizhou.

Here is another cool pic, kind of struck me to see two 094s at Hainan. Furthermore, I kind of think that the backs on thse subs are lower than those in the previous pictures.

Note the submarine cave opening at the very right of the picture.

 

[tphuang]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

There is a new Yuan pic out posted by Xinhui in the CDF that does not look like its in Shanghai, but its a whooping over 400k to be posted in this forum. Maybe someone can find an under 200k version from the Chinese forums. I suspect that this Yuan, belonging to the new batch given the visual details, is located at the ESF sub base in Xizhou.

Here is another cool pic, kind of struck me to see two 094s at Hainan. Furthermore, I kind of think that the backs on thse subs are lower than those in the previous pictures.

Note the submarine cave opening at the very right of the picture.

why do I get the feeling that this picture is PSed?

As for the Yuan picture, it looks like that one is not the first Yuan, because it seems to have the slight modifications as the one currently undergoing sea test in Shanghai. So, that would indicate maybe there is a second Yuan already that we didn't know about.

 

[sumdud]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

It is PSed. The subs' quality was better than that of the surrounding. Angle of the Sun/weather is also different between subs and surroundings.

 

[crobato]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

That's one big trouble for PS. Because the background is no fake and is indeed taken well inside the breakwater of a major PLAN sub base. which at GE location would be at

18 deg 12'34.81" N 109 deg 41'17.25" E

Note as in the GE image and the picture's background there is a submarine cave.

I wonder who is going to imperil himself going inside a major PLAN secret just to take a shot of the background. That background is an intel find by itself since it confirms the additional of new building and pier structures on the sub base near Sanya which was not there when the GE picture (already very old) was taken.

I have some problems with the lighting and borders so there maybe some doubt if the subs are superimposed into a background. But when you generally want to superimpose into a background, you want the background to be a "safe" one that will obscure the sub's true location. But you don't want to make that background even hotter by putting it within a genuinely top security base. It just destroys the entire motivation of it all.

This is after all, the kind of material that can get you in jail in the mainland. Even if the background is superimposed under very questionable motivations, where did they get the two subs?

Also I found the picture in Hui Tong's site. Pictures in his site are a stamp of approval they're not PS'ed. Or at least came from a trusted "source". I trust his judgment completely. If the pictures are indeed faked, and he takes it down, then it is fake. But if it stays it stays.