PLAN SCS Bases/Islands/Vessels (Not a Strategy Page)

Jeff Head said:

Okay, that's enough of this kind of talk.

This is a GROSS generalization.

I spent a LOT of time in Taiwan in the 1990s. While there, I did not get the impression or idea that they had any kind of self-hatred for their Chinese heritage, background ,or culture.

To the contrary, they were always talking to me about the National Museum where so many artifacts and historical documents that had been brought over to the Island as they escaped the mainland to preserve them from the cultural purge that took place under Mao.

They were very proud of it and took me to that museum to show me numerous historical, cultural, and heritage items on several occasions.

I spent less time in Hong Kong so cannot speak as strongly there...though when going there (it was still under British control then) I also did not notice anything like this...though my involvement was not as seep or prolonged as it was in Taiwan.

Let's be very careful about generalizing people like this...that sort of thing is specifically against SD rules in any case.

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Bltizo said:

I think it's unfair to use the word brainwashed in this context (or indeed any context) as it de-legitimates the opinions that a particular side holds, and despite my own strong opinions of the Taiwan issue I also do appreciate the fact that many people from Taiwan do strongly have interests which are leading them towards a feeling of greater self autonomy.

The question in coming years will be whether that desire of greater self autonomy will be cause greater moves towards formal political autonomy, and also whether any such moves end up being positive or negative for Taiwan in an economic sense, and how much the population would be interested in pursuing their own self perceived uniqueness in relation to economic prosperity and growth.

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Jeff Head said:

I spent a LOT of time in Taiwan in the 1990s. While there, I did not get the impression or idea that they had any kind of self-hatred for their Chinese heritage, background ,or culture.

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To the contrary, they were always talking to me about the National Museum where so many artifacts and historical documents that had been brought over to the Island as they escaped the mainland to preserve them from the cultural purge that took place under Mao.

They were very proud of it and took me to that museum to show me numerous historical, cultural, and heritage items on several occasions.

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I spent less time in Hong Kong so cannot speak as strongly there...though when going there (it was still under British control then) I also did not notice anything like this...though my involvement was not as seep or prolonged as it was in Taiwan.

Let's be very careful about generalizing people like this...that sort of thing is specifically against SD rules in any case.

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longmarch said:

It's not about opinion but what they are told. It's simply absurd that as connected as the world is today, people can still fool and manipulate so many ignorant people so close to mainland China. So called "experts" on TV programs saying things like "PLA can't find enough soldiers with high school education" or "few Chinese can afford eating tea egg". These have become jokes on the mainland side and even Wikipedia entry has been created, though in Chinese.

If you are not awares of these things, then we are talking about two different Taiwan, one us people's imagination, another one in reality.

Things will only get more interesting in the coming years.

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longmarch said:

The best way to summarize Taiwan today is that it's going through a revolution, not so much different from the Cultural Revolution happened in mainland China. This anology is a cliche but resonate among many Taiwanese themselves. Many things would be understandable under this context.

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Bltizo said:

I think that is a very dangerous analogy that is probably too controversial to be accurate, because the cultural revolution featured a wide range of fairly unique circumstances within the country, and any parallels to the cultural revolution would have to fulfill quite a range of criteria to make a comparison anywhere near valid.

There is definitely an emerging cultural shift in Taiwan as well as HK, and if we had to explain it I actually think it can be done better by applying social psychological theories than through historical analogies.

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longmarch said:

Not to argue with you, but it's more political than cultural, just like the "cultural" revolution.

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登太平島美國感失望 馬英九：為促進和平　2016-01-28 23:20

台灣的馬英九總統上任以來首次到南沙太平島視察，提出落實他所提出的「南海和平倡議」。他強調登島並非是去叫囂，而是希望和平。 馬英九率領相關官員及學者登上太平島，是他就任總統八年來首次登島。他在島上逗留一個上午，期間向派駐島上的官兵發言。提出落實他去年所作出「南海和平倡議」的「三要三不要」，分別是「要合作、不要衝突」，建立合作及開發機制，將主權問題留待日後和平解決。而各方在分配資源上「要共享、不要獨佔」，免得損害任何一方利益。在推進合作時，則要從容易達成共識的方面入手，「要務實、不要僵持」。 馬英九表示：「我們解決南海爭議的具體主張，則是主權在我、擱置爭議、和平互惠、共同開發。」 馬英九又反駁菲律賓指太平島是岩礁的說法，指島上設施足以維持人類居住及經濟生活，符合聯合國海洋法公約對「島嶼」的定義。馬英九巡視了太平島上多個發展項目，又從島上寄信，下午回台北。 對於美國國務院表示對他登島的決定感到失望，馬英九不認為這樣做，是導致關係更緊張：「主權不容易解決，爭議也許可以擱置，但是資源可以來分享。所以我們跟美國在大方向上應該是一致的。我去並不是要去叫囂，去罵那個國家說你要怎麼樣。我們一切的規劃都是為了促進和平。」 馬英九又表示邀請當選總統的民進黨主席蔡英文同行是尊重制度，對於民進黨不派人一起去感到很意外。馬英九強調，登島主要是趁農曆新年臨近，慰勞駐島人員，但外界普遍視為「宣示主權」。 在北京，外交部表示南沙群島自古以來是中國領土，兩岸有責任維護中華民族祖產。

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Teng Ma Taiping Island US disappointed: for peace 2016-01-28 23:20
President Ma Ying-jeou of Taiwan for the first time since he took office to inspect Nansha Taiping Island, propose ways to implement his proposed "South China Sea peace initiative." He stressed that the landing is not to clamor, but hope for peace. Ma Ying-jeou led officials and academics boarded Taiping Island, he became president eight years for the first time landing. He stayed on the island a morning, speaking to soldiers stationed on the island during. Propose ways to implement "the South China Sea Peace Initiative" in "three to three don'ts" he made last year, are "to cooperate, not conflict," the establishment and development of cooperation mechanisms, will be left to the peaceful settlement of the issue of sovereignty in the future. The parties "want to share, not exclusive" in the allocation of resources, so that harm the interests of any party. In pursuing cooperation aspect is easy to reach a consensus from the start, "to be pragmatic, not a stalemate." Ma said: "We resolve specific claims the South China Sea dispute, it is sovereignty in me, putting aside disputes, peace, reciprocity and common development." Ma Ying-jeou has refuted the Philippines refers to Taiping Island are rocks argument refers to the island facilities are sufficient to sustain human habitation and economic life , in line with the United Nations Convention on the "island" definition. Ma Ying-jeou visited the Pacific island a number of development projects, and from the island to send a letter, in the afternoon back to Taipei. For the US State Department expressed disappointment decided he landed on the island, Ma Ying-jeou does not think to do so led to more intense relationship: "sovereignty is not easy to solve, the dispute may be set aside, but the resources so that we can share with the United States in the general direction of the should be consistent. I'm not going to clamor, to criticize that country say how you like. All of our planning is to promote peace. "President-elect Ma Ying-jeou also said that the invitation of the Democratic Progressive Party Chairman Tsai Ing-wen is respected peer system, the DPP does not send people to go to surprise. Ma stressed that the landing was mainly to take advantage of the Lunar New Year approaching, reward personnel stationed in the island, but it is widely regarded as "declaration of sovereignty." In Beijing, the Foreign Ministry said the Nansha Islands are Chinese territory since ancient times, both sides have a responsibility to safeguard the nation patrimony.

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