Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread
No its not that simple. Shipdesigning is not an easy task, exspecially when designing warships. Warships with huge enough to field an airstirp ontop...
China has been in the warshipbuilding industry since the 1950's but had it's first three decades of showing basicly no progress at all. They were tied to redesing already obcolent soviet warship models and had huge proplems in the very basics of technology not to mention about the workmanship and quality issues. This was ofcourse becouse of the illfavorably conditions. Non existing industrial base and shipbuilding traditions, Breakup with the "big-brother", genious marvels of "great leap forwards" and "cultural revolution"...they were the biggest overall reaosn for the backwardness of the chinese development in almoust all areas. Only in late 80's and early 90's was there any progress. This progress emerged as it would do with in reasonable limits. It was a huge leap to developt the first indegenious destroyer design and it was done so basicly with blind-folden. These babysteps were shaky and unbalanced but still they headed forwards.
Now after 17 years china is still taking those steps (unlike many of you may think). The first indegenious destroyer, Luhu class had it's illfated and ill-logical follower from the Luhai class (which history I explained in the 167 mod thread) and now there's the seccond generation luhu's (which was actually more viable design than its intial follower) are being fielded but all sighs points that China is not so happy with the results.
The babysteps continue, the PLAN has emerged to the "toddler-age" and is now eagerly trying everything new. Also it now seems that its having succes with the 054A and is finally having relatively modern major surface combatant into serial production.
...But to design and build a 93,000 ton aircraft carrier? Its as realistic given to the current state of chinese cababilites as it is to see a Polish Sthealt fighter emerging to challenge the f-22...
China has no experience of building warships of over 10,000 tons. To design a small VSTOL carrier of just above that tonnage would be enourmous and almoust impossiple task to the chinese builders. Aircraft carriers aren't container ships. They are not oil tankers, or any other civilian sector "big ships". Aircraft carriers are the biggest and most complicated warships existing today and to have one that is actually workable ship, you need to know exactly what you are doing. How on earht do you expect chinese to know what it takes to build 93,000 ton supercarrier? Yeas they have studied Varyag...The last offsping of another noob country's effort to do exactly the same as Chinese are doing now. And suprise, suprise they didn't do that well. Soviets carriers were from the shipdesign point of wiev completely unsuccesfull. Moskvas and Kievs had poor seakeeping and handeling proplems and with the politicans screwing the decision making, the air-capabilities were as horrible. Varyag (which followed the hulldesign from the Kiev class) is 60,000 ton carrier with practical aviation cababilites of that of 27,000 ton Centaurio class. Only difference is that at least Centaurios had Catabults before the VSTOL hype...
Studying Varyag is only good if you wish to point out what you shouldn't do. But thats all what China has now and they should make all the efforts of it. But it's not going to help them to make this supercarrier that this "article" promises...
China doesen't need 80 years, but it still needs years....First to get balanced and viable shipdevelopment line with the normal warshisp, then get the Varyag finished and only after then will they be ready for the next challenge which is to developt an indegenious carriers but those will be far more realistic than this mentioned above. It takes decades at least. My obinion and guess is that we see one emerging to the building phase around 2020...
But untill then, lets just wait and get Varyag lauched first, then start dreaming with supercarriers exiding all current designs.
No its not that simple. Shipdesigning is not an easy task, exspecially when designing warships. Warships with huge enough to field an airstirp ontop...
China has been in the warshipbuilding industry since the 1950's but had it's first three decades of showing basicly no progress at all. They were tied to redesing already obcolent soviet warship models and had huge proplems in the very basics of technology not to mention about the workmanship and quality issues. This was ofcourse becouse of the illfavorably conditions. Non existing industrial base and shipbuilding traditions, Breakup with the "big-brother", genious marvels of "great leap forwards" and "cultural revolution"...they were the biggest overall reaosn for the backwardness of the chinese development in almoust all areas. Only in late 80's and early 90's was there any progress. This progress emerged as it would do with in reasonable limits. It was a huge leap to developt the first indegenious destroyer design and it was done so basicly with blind-folden. These babysteps were shaky and unbalanced but still they headed forwards.
Now after 17 years china is still taking those steps (unlike many of you may think). The first indegenious destroyer, Luhu class had it's illfated and ill-logical follower from the Luhai class (which history I explained in the 167 mod thread) and now there's the seccond generation luhu's (which was actually more viable design than its intial follower) are being fielded but all sighs points that China is not so happy with the results.
The babysteps continue, the PLAN has emerged to the "toddler-age" and is now eagerly trying everything new. Also it now seems that its having succes with the 054A and is finally having relatively modern major surface combatant into serial production.
...But to design and build a 93,000 ton aircraft carrier? Its as realistic given to the current state of chinese cababilites as it is to see a Polish Sthealt fighter emerging to challenge the f-22...
China has no experience of building warships of over 10,000 tons. To design a small VSTOL carrier of just above that tonnage would be enourmous and almoust impossiple task to the chinese builders. Aircraft carriers aren't container ships. They are not oil tankers, or any other civilian sector "big ships". Aircraft carriers are the biggest and most complicated warships existing today and to have one that is actually workable ship, you need to know exactly what you are doing. How on earht do you expect chinese to know what it takes to build 93,000 ton supercarrier? Yeas they have studied Varyag...The last offsping of another noob country's effort to do exactly the same as Chinese are doing now. And suprise, suprise they didn't do that well. Soviets carriers were from the shipdesign point of wiev completely unsuccesfull. Moskvas and Kievs had poor seakeeping and handeling proplems and with the politicans screwing the decision making, the air-capabilities were as horrible. Varyag (which followed the hulldesign from the Kiev class) is 60,000 ton carrier with practical aviation cababilites of that of 27,000 ton Centaurio class. Only difference is that at least Centaurios had Catabults before the VSTOL hype...
Studying Varyag is only good if you wish to point out what you shouldn't do. But thats all what China has now and they should make all the efforts of it. But it's not going to help them to make this supercarrier that this "article" promises...
China doesen't need 80 years, but it still needs years....First to get balanced and viable shipdevelopment line with the normal warshisp, then get the Varyag finished and only after then will they be ready for the next challenge which is to developt an indegenious carriers but those will be far more realistic than this mentioned above. It takes decades at least. My obinion and guess is that we see one emerging to the building phase around 2020...
But untill then, lets just wait and get Varyag lauched first, then start dreaming with supercarriers exiding all current designs.
Cultural revolution as well as other elements of inflexibility in chinese military hierarchy are the most important single factors that counts. China is emerging and by industrial and economical level capaple of building big naval units, why not carriers as well, but that just wont be enough. If you would given ten million dollars, would you be able to build ten million dollar ship?? (presuming that you arent shipengineer) 