PLAN Carrier Strike Group and Airwing

Engineer

Major
Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

Acually, the Japanese Hyuga or the Osumi do not come close to carrying " a few dozen helos". They each can carry a few helos. And for ASW work, the Hyuga is therefore well suited as the center piece of such a task force.
Right, they like to go with the most expensive route possible, and with ALL that deck space they would only put a few helicopters on it. Very convincing.

Of course they build them because they want to, but that want is based on the perceived need of the Japanese leadership.
They could conjure up some justifications, yes, but that doesn't translate to needs. If they are that serious about ASW, then they can get P-3's, a lot of P-3's, for the amount they are putting in to their carriers. If they want to invade someone, that would be another need, and in which case you would be right and I would be wrong. However, they are a pacific nation, at least that's what I'm told, so the second reason is out of the question. They are not getting P-3's either, so it means carriers are something they are investing but don't serious need.

Juts because you disagree with it, does not mean that they do not see it.
Just because they see something and you see something, that doesn't mean I have to be convinced about them.

If they have the capability to have the capability, then by definition...they have the capability as soon as they choose to exercise it. If A=B, and B=C, then A=C.
A=B is not the definition of capability, it is call equivalent. For example, they can build a fighter aircraft means they can build a fighter aircraft.

Having the capabilities of building a fighter aircraft means they already have the experience, knowledge, and infrastructure to do so. By your own words "I am talking about developing the infrastructure and experience to do so...which would take several years", meaning they do not have that capability yet and but is working it. Building up these requirements is not the same as having these requirements already.

But for argument's sake, let say you are right in that capability to have capability to do A is equal to capability to do A. By that same logic, China has the capability to have the capability that can acquire... the capability to build a portal to Mars, which means China has the capability to build said portal. Isn't that awesome? :roll:
 

Engineer

Major
Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

Acually, the Japanese Hyuga or the Osumi do not come close to carrying " a few dozen helos". They each can carry a few helos. And for ASW work, the Hyuga is therefore well suited as the center piece of such a task force.
Right, they like to go with the most expensive route possible, and with ALL that deck space they would only put a few helicopters on it. Very convincing.

Of course they build them because they want to, but that want is based on the perceived need of the Japanese leadership.
They could conjure up some justifications, yes, but that doesn't translate to needs. If they are that serious about ASW, then they can get P-3's, a lot of P-3's, for the amount they are putting in to their carriers. If they want to invade someone, that would be another need, and in which case you would be right and I would be wrong. However, they are a pacific nation, at least that's what I'm told, so the second reason is out of the question. They are not getting P-3's either, so it means carriers are something they are investing but don't serious need.

Juts because you disagree with it, does not mean that they do not see it.
Just because they see something and you see something, that doesn't mean I have to be convinced about them.

If they have the capability to have the capability, then by definition...they have the capability as soon as they choose to exercise it. If A=B, and B=C, then A=C.
A=B is not the definition of capability, it is call equivalent. For example, they can build a fighter aircraft means they can build a fighter aircraft.

Having the capabilities of building a fighter aircraft means they already have the experience, knowledge, and infrastructure to do so. By your own words "I am talking about developing the infrastructure and experience to do so...which would take several years", meaning they do not have that capability yet and but is working it. Building up these requirements is not the same as having these requirements already.

But for argument's sake, let say you are right in that capability to have capability to do A is equal to capability to do A. By that same logic, China has the capability to have the capability that can acquire... the capability to build a portal to Mars, which means China has the capability to build said portal. Isn't that awesome? :roll:
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

But for argument's sake, let say you are right in that capability to have capability to do A is equal to capability to do A. By that same logic, China has the capability to have the capability that can acquire... the capability to build a portal to Mars, which means China has the capability to build said portal. Isn't that awesome? :roll:
You have clearly misunderstood what I said about a simple rule of mathematics and logic and are now taking that misunderstanding and projecting it to the point of getting simply rediculous.

We clearly disagree...and that's fine.

Clearly the Japanese are building helicopter carriers for ASW work because they feel they need them, regardless of what you or I think, and they are the ones making the decisions and put their by their people to do so, and they are using information provided to them by their military and intelligence people that you and I are not privy to.

We are far afield from the point of this thread, which is about the ideal PLAN carrier, so I will leave it at that.

I invite others to read our exchange and judge for themselves regarding this offshoot topic, and now to try and get back to the PLAN issue at hand...which I believe they are going to build and deploy as well according to their own needs as they see them.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

But for argument's sake, let say you are right in that capability to have capability to do A is equal to capability to do A. By that same logic, China has the capability to have the capability that can acquire... the capability to build a portal to Mars, which means China has the capability to build said portal. Isn't that awesome? :roll:
You have clearly misunderstood what I said about a simple rule of mathematics and logic and are now taking that misunderstanding and projecting it to the point of getting simply rediculous.

We clearly disagree...and that's fine.

Clearly the Japanese are building helicopter carriers for ASW work because they feel they need them, regardless of what you or I think, and they are the ones making the decisions and put their by their people to do so, and they are using information provided to them by their military and intelligence people that you and I are not privy to.

We are far afield from the point of this thread, which is about the ideal PLAN carrier, so I will leave it at that.

I invite others to read our exchange and judge for themselves regarding this offshoot topic, and now to try and get back to the PLAN issue at hand...which I believe they are going to build and deploy as well according to their own needs as they see them.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

But for argument's sake, let say you are right in that capability to have capability to do A is equal to capability to do A. By that same logic, China has the capability to have the capability that can acquire... the capability to build a portal to Mars, which means China has the capability to build said portal. Isn't that awesome? :roll:
You have clearly misunderstood what I said about a simple rule of mathematics and logic and are now taking that misunderstanding and projecting it to the point of getting simply rediculous.

We clearly disagree...and that's fine.

Clearly the Japanese are building helicopter carriers for ASW work because they feel they need them, regardless of what you or I think, and they are the ones making the decisions and put their by their people to do so, and they are using information provided to them by their military and intelligence people that you and I are not privy to.

We are far afield from the point of this thread, which is about the ideal PLAN carrier, so I will leave it at that.

I invite others to read our exchange and judge for themselves regarding this offshoot topic, and now to try and get back to the PLAN issue at hand...which I believe they are going to build and deploy as well according to their own needs as they see them.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

Jeff Head say it best;

We are far afield from the point of this thread, which is about the ideal PLAN carrier, so I will leave it at that.

Get back on topic gents. If need be start a thread about the JSDF

bd popeye super moderator
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

Jeff Head say it best;

We are far afield from the point of this thread, which is about the ideal PLAN carrier, so I will leave it at that.

Get back on topic gents. If need be start a thread about the JSDF

bd popeye super moderator
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

Jeff Head say it best;

We are far afield from the point of this thread, which is about the ideal PLAN carrier, so I will leave it at that.

Get back on topic gents. If need be start a thread about the JSDF

bd popeye super moderator
 

Engineer

Major
Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

You have clearly misunderstood what I said about a simple rule of mathematics and logic...
That argument you have presented is neither mathematical or logical, and I will leave it at that. As far as PLAN's carriers are concerned, I believe they will be very similar to the Varyag. The hulls would be almost identicial, but the deck will be stretched in some way to enable more aircraft to be carried. The island will be changed and will look nothing like that on the Varyag.
 

Engineer

Major
Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

You have clearly misunderstood what I said about a simple rule of mathematics and logic...
That argument you have presented is neither mathematical or logical, and I will leave it at that. As far as PLAN's carriers are concerned, I believe they will be very similar to the Varyag. The hulls would be almost identicial, but the deck will be stretched in some way to enable more aircraft to be carried. The island will be changed and will look nothing like that on the Varyag.
 
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