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Lethe

Captain
I haven't posted much about Australia-China developments in the AUKUS thread recently as it didn't seem that folks were interested. Yet here we are. Confusionism is correct that Peter Dutton's description of the PLAN surveillance ship's activities as "an act of aggression" is simply political posturing by the Liberal party on the eve of the election (21st May).

The Liberals have chosen to make Australia-China relations, or more crudely the "China threat", a topic of the election. The Liberals claim that China "wants a Labor government" and that only the Liberals can be trusted to be "strong" against China. This is straight from every nation's conservative/nationalist playbook. Unfortunately for the Liberals, their credentials on this subject have been called into question following the signing of the security/logistics agreement between China and Solomon Islands in the middle of the election campaign. The opposition Labor party has since been on the attack claiming that the Liberals have presided over "the worst foreign policy failure in the Pacific since 1945", while also raising what they allege to be the Liberals' strategic incompetence in allowing a Chinese company to secure a 99-year lease on the Port of Darwin. TL;DR: the Liberals started this political shitfight and have since been losing it. That is the context to understand Defence Minister Peter Dutton's recent desperate statement about China's "act of aggression". I have written about Dutton previously and would encourage those interested to read those posts.

I feel this might be a little more provocation than I am comfortable with. The PLAN is conducting this FONOP immediately on the heels of signing a security agreement with the Solomon Islands. This whole thing has the potential to really put Australians on edge and escalate anxieties... We can probably cut the Aussies some slack, which will persuade them not to do anything drastic

I agree that the timing of this surveillance activity is unhelpful, though perhaps for a different reason. It has been widely pointed out that Dutton's statement is inconsistent with Australia's previous public positions on similar matters (i.e. Chinese surveillance assets operating within Australia's EEZ) and the Prime Minister also declined to echo Dutton's specific language. As tphuang points out, Dutton's words are actually a great gift to Beijing which objects to similar operations conducted by USN in its waters, most famously with the USNS Impeccable off Hainan Island in 2014.

The reason I say the event is unhelpful is because of the aforementioned political narratives. Where the Coalition has been beating its chest about being "strong" on China, and portraying the Labor opposition as "weak" on China, such public posturing and messaging makes it more difficult for governments in future to pursue more productive relations. Particularly in the case of a future Labor government, such a government would be wary of being seen to be "weak" on China (because all the Murdoch-aligned right-wing press would crucify them for it). There has been some indication in recent months that Beijing has been seeking to reopen dialogue channels with Canberra. These overtures have been
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by a Liberal government in election/survival mode. These "China threat" dynamics do not serve Beijing's interests and actions that reinforce them are therefore unhelpful. The surveillance activity would appear to fall into this category. The Solomon Islands would not as the gains for Beijing there likely greatly outweigh any costs.
 
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Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
I haven't posted much about Australia-China developments in the AUKUS thread recently as it didn't seem that folks were interested. Yet here we are. Confusionism is correct that Peter Dutton's description of the PLAN surveillance ship's activities as "an act of aggression" is simply political posturing by the Liberal party on the eve of the election (21st May).

The Liberals have chosen to make Australia-China relations, or more crudely the "China threat", a topic of the election. The Liberals claim that China "wants a Labor government" and that only the Liberals can be trusted to be "strong" against China. This is straight from every nation's conservative/nationalist playbook. Unfortunately for the Liberals, their credentials on this subject have been called into question following the signing of the security/logistics agreement between China and Solomon Islands in the middle of the election campaign. The opposition Labor party has since been on the attack claiming that the Liberals have presided over "the worst foreign policy failure in the Pacific since 1945", while also raising what they allege to be the Liberals' strategic incompetence in allowing a Chinese company to secure a 99-year lease on the Port of Darwin. TL;DR: the Liberals started this political shitfight and have since been losing it. That is the context to understand Defence Minister Peter Dutton's recent desperate statement about China's "act of aggression". I have written about Dutton previously and would encourage those interested to read those posts.



I agree that the timing of this surveillance activity is unhelpful, though perhaps for a different reason. It has been widely pointed out that Dutton's statement is inconsistent with Australia's previous public positions on similar matters (i.e. Chinese surveillance assets operating within Australia's EEZ) and the Prime Minister also declined to echo Dutton's specific language. As tphuang points out, Dutton's words are actually a great gift to Beijing which objects to similar operations conducted by USN in its waters, most famously with the USNS Impeccable off Hainan Island in 2014.

The reason I say the event is unhelpful is because of the aforementioned political narratives. Where the Coalition has been beating its chest about being "strong" on China, and portraying the Labor opposition as "weak" on China, such public posturing and messaging makes it more difficult for governments in future to pursue more productive relations. Particularly in the case of a future Labor government, such a government would be wary of being seen to be "weak" on China (because all the Murdoch-aligned right-wing press would crucify them for it). There has been some indication in recent months that Beijing has been seeking to reopen dialogue channels with Canberra. These overtures have been
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
by a Liberal government in election/survival mode. These "China threat" dynamics do not serve Beijing's interests and actions that reinforce them are therefore unhelpful. The surveillance activity would appear to fall into this category. The Solomon Islands would not as the gains for Beijing there likely greatly outweigh any costs.
Beggars can't be choosers. If Australia thinks that it's China that has to keep adjusting and placating their ducked up political environment at China's expense and international prestige then frankly I for one don't see that as a win for China's core interests to keep kowtowing to those genocidal kangaroos.
 

Rettam Stacf

Junior Member
Registered Member
My speculation is that with the availability of Russian metallurgical coal originally designated for EU, China has written Australia off as a trade partner. Hence PLAN sending the surveillance ship was a message to Australia that "I am watching you. Do not make any move on Solomon Islands."

If in the near future, PLAN sends a warship, either a frigate or destroyer, to visit the Solomon Islands, it will confirm my suspicion.

Also (at the risk of being OT), the lesson learned from the US transition from Trump (Republican Party) to Biden (Democratic Party) should be clear about any false hope of transition from Liberal to Labor Party will be any different.
 
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escobar

Brigadier
This Australian administration is full of comedians. They just gave China great gift calling freedom of navigation "an act of aggression". If China had any sense, it should use that to call all American/Australian FOP acts of aggression and refer to this comment. Great way to show Australian hyprocrisy.

I see Australia as nothing but a strategic annoyance. You have a nation trying to have power projection and blue water navy with minimal domestic military/high tech industrial base and 1/30th America's military budget. It's bound to be a major disaster. But Australia does have importance to China with its valuable natural resources and a decent sized market for Chinese product. You don't want that relationship to deteriorate too much.
New info: AUKUS came from Australian desire of deterrence by punishment against PRC
 

ACuriousPLAFan

Colonel
Registered Member
New info: AUKUS came from Australian desire of deterrence by punishment against PRC
The are Ozzie Twittards in the comment section moaning that even with hypersonic missiles isn't enough, and openly calling for Australia to acquire nuclear weapons to further deter China.

I suppose these Ozzie Twittards don't understand the policy of usage of nuclear weapons by China.

China has clearly stated that they would "not to use or threaten to use nuclear weapons against non-nuclear-weapon states or nuclear weapon-free zones at any time or under any circumstances," multiple times.

By acquiring nuclear weapons, Australia just excluded herself from China's list of "non-nuclear-weapon states" and "nuclear weapon-free zones".

Good job. Their "wise" calls would give Beijing concrete and absolute reason to spare some nuclear-tipped Dongfengs for Canberra, Darwin, Perth, Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane, if sh*t does hit the fan between Beijing and Washington (and DC's lackey Canberra).

Remember that Australia has an urbanization rate of 86%.

So if sh*t does hit the fan, China is actually helping Indonesia by eliminating their most powerful rival in the Oceanic region. By then, Indonesia should just annex a ruined Australia right away.

Dumba** Ozzie Twittards.
 
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tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
The are Ozzie Twittards in the comment section moaning that even with hypersonic missiles isn't enough, and openly calling for Australia to acquire nuclear weapons to further deter China.

I suppose these Ozzie Twittards don't understand the policy of usage of nuclear weapons by China.

China has clearly stated that they would "not to use or threaten to use nuclear weapons against non-nuclear-weapon states or nuclear weapon-free zones at any time or under any circumstances," multiple times.

By acquiring nuclear weapons, Australia just excluded herself from China's list of "non-nuclear-weapon states" and "nuclear weapon-free zones".

Good job. Their "wise" calls would give Beijing concrete and absolute reason to spare some nuclear-tipped Dongfengs for Canberra, Darwin, Perth, Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane, if sh*t does hit the fan between Beijing and Washington (and DC's lackey Canberra).

Remember that Australia has an urbanization rate of 86%.

So if sh*t does hit the fan, China is actually helping Indonesia by eliminating their most powerful rival in the Oceanic region. By then, Indonesia should just annex a ruined Australia right away.

Dumba** Ozzie Twittards.

Why get worked up by trolls on twitter?

The most consequential part of Australian military trying to be blue water force projecting military is that Indonesia and surrounding nations will feel threatened. Great time for china to partner up with Indonesia and sell them the latest weapons. Unfortunately, they probably won't be in that position until later this decade.

This ridiculous strategy will probably result in Australia blowing through large portion of its defense budget and not getting what it wants.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator

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