PLA Strategy in a Taiwan Contingency

HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
Let me ask you plainly:

Are you seriously arguing that today it is the policy of the US to use nuclear weapon on China in the event of an invasion of Taiwan?

I don't why you're asking me that.

I don't know how likely it is, but my point is that your dismissive attitude towards a think tank's position on US Nuclear Policy was entirely unwarranted. Think tanks have an input on policy, that's why they exist, and some of them are extremely influential. What's even more important, is that there are many people in the political-military establishment itself who think that way too.

That said, here is my assessment.

United States is unlikely to resort to nuclear weapons while it has a very powerful array of conventional options. However, in the event that United States suffers a serious, perhaps even devastating military defeat which renders it conventional options ineffective, it may very well resort to using nuclear weapons.

Human behavior is unpredictable, and I would not count on individual policy makers holding their cool no matter what. In fact, if United States loses tends of thousands of personnel, multiple ships, dozens of aircraft in a failed attempt to preserve hegemony in WESTPAC, I hypothesize that there is a very significant chance that United States may use and escalate to nuclear weapons in an attempt to even the odds. Especially because United States will likely have an escalation advantage in a nuclear exchange due to a larger arsenal and greater strategic depth.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Let me ask you plainly:

Are you seriously arguing that today it is the policy of the US to use nuclear weapon on China in the event of an invasion of Taiwan?
It's not a policy; it's a live decision based on the situation, the balance of power and what they think it could achieve. I'm sure if the US believes that using nukes would allow America to achieve its objectives submitting China and cementing American dominance in Asia, it would. If it believes that using nukes would instead result in a massive Chinese nuclear retaliation that would cause unacceptable damage or the outright destruction and defeat of the US, then they will absolutely stay away from anything that can be misconstrued as a step towards using nukes. There is no pre-planned automatically activated policy; it's gonna be a room full of generals having a meeting to discuss the likely risks and rewards to the current situation as it unfolds.
 

tankphobia

Senior Member
Registered Member
I don't think discussing nukes in this thread is going to be all that productive, as there are too many unknowns involved, our entire knowledge base about Chinese nuclear capabilities is almost all based on OSINT, trying to draw useful conclusions from such limited data could be widely off base compared to reality.

In terms of the willingness for the US to actually use the nuclear button, we have yet to see that. I don't really see current tensions being anywhere near as high as the height of the cold war, where the bomb could drop any minute. The fact that the US is still trying to limit their sanctions to high-tech rather than broad spectrum de-coupling should tell you enough about what they really think about our future relationship. Tense, but still steadily trading. That does not seem to me like two countries on the brink of nuclear war, in fact we have not even reached the proxy war stage of competition yet.
 

HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
In terms of the willingness for the US to actually use the nuclear button, we have yet to see that. I don't really see current tensions being anywhere near as high as the height of the cold war, where the bomb could drop any minute. The fact that the US is still trying to limit their sanctions to high-tech rather than broad spectrum de-coupling should tell you enough about what they really think about our future relationship. Tense, but still steadily trading. That does not seem to me like two countries on the brink of nuclear war, in fact we have not even reached the proxy war stage of competition yet.

That's not the hypothetical though.

The hypothetical is a Taiwan conflict where United States cannot gain an advantage via conventional power. It's hard to say what will happen, particularly if it's in year 2035 or something and the President is a hawk.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
I don't why you're asking me that.

I don't know how likely it is, but my point is that your dismissive attitude towards a think tank's position on US Nuclear Policy was entirely unwarranted. Think tanks have an input on policy, that's why they exist, and some of them are extremely influential. What's even more important, is that there are many people in the political-military establishment itself who think that way too.

That said, here is my assessment.

United States is unlikely to resort to nuclear weapons while it has a very powerful array of conventional options. However, in the event that United States suffers a serious, perhaps even devastating military defeat which renders it conventional options ineffective, it may very well resort to using nuclear weapons.

Human behavior is unpredictable, and I would not count on individual policy makers holding their cool no matter what. In fact, if United States loses tends of thousands of personnel, multiple ships, dozens of aircraft in a failed attempt to preserve hegemony in WESTPAC, I hypothesize that there is a very significant chance that United States may use and escalate to nuclear weapons in an attempt to even the odds. Especially because United States will likely have an escalation advantage in a nuclear exchange due to a larger arsenal and greater strategic depth.
It is very tricky for them now unlike during the Cold War as they are in a 2v1 instead of 1v1. If they spend too much on China what's left for Russia?
 

montyp165

Senior Member
It is very tricky for them now unlike during the Cold War as they are in a 2v1 instead of 1v1. If they spend too much on China what's left for Russia?
Indeed, to expand on that point, if the US attempted to preemptively use nukes against either China and Russia at this juncture would result in full spectrum nuclear retaliation by both, because it would effectively become a 'use it or lose it' situation especially if the US believed it could try to pull off a nuclear strike and get away with it. The North Korean arsenal would almost certainly be involved as well with the involvement of their biggest partners too against their biggest adversary.
 

Jason_

Junior Member
Registered Member
I don't why you're asking me that.

I don't know how likely it is, but my point is that your dismissive attitude towards a think tank's position on US Nuclear Policy was entirely unwarranted. Think tanks have an input on policy, that's why they exist, and some of them are extremely influential. What's even more important, is that there are many people in the political-military establishment itself who think that way too.

That said, here is my assessment.

United States is unlikely to resort to nuclear weapons while it has a very powerful array of conventional options. However, in the event that United States suffers a serious, perhaps even devastating military defeat which renders it conventional options ineffective, it may very well resort to using nuclear weapons.

Human behavior is unpredictable, and I would not count on individual policy makers holding their cool no matter what. In fact, if United States loses tends of thousands of personnel, multiple ships, dozens of aircraft in a failed attempt to preserve hegemony in WESTPAC, I hypothesize that there is a very significant chance that United States may use and escalate to nuclear weapons in an attempt to even the odds. Especially because United States will likely have an escalation advantage in a nuclear exchange due to a larger arsenal and greater strategic depth.
What you are saying is fundamentally different from a policy of using nuclear weapon to protect Taiwan. This is because the purpose of such a policy, if it were implemented, would be to deter China from invading. The goal would not be to actually use the nukes, but to threaten China and modify China's behavior. In order for this to work, however, China would have to be persuaded into believing that the US will follow through with the threat of using nukes, hence the need for credibility. This is why if the US do have this policy, it makes every sense for it to announce it frequently and publicly as a matter of doctrine to enhance that credibility. In the words of Dr. Strangelove: "The whole point of a nuclear umbrella over Taiwan would be lost if you keep it a secret."

Because of this, the very fact that the US is not announcing it publicly means that it does not have this policy. Indeed, the very fact that someone from a think tank is advocating this policy shows that this is not a current policy. And while think tanks are influential in general, this does not mean each and every policy proposal from a think tank is automatically meaningful, especially one that is as outdated as 2017.

As for the potential for nuclear escalation in a conventional war, that is well known and uncontroversial. China is already preparing by increasing its capabilities.
 

Hood_Rat

New Member
Registered Member
Just for reference but if you look up I think the American 2006 OPLAN for Taiwan, it has a section detailing options and considerations for both tactical and strategic nuclear weapons release on China. That we are having this conversation in 2023 is absolutely hilarious when this has been a fact of life since at least the second Bush II administration.
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
Just for reference but if you look up I think the American 2006 OPLAN for Taiwan, it has a section detailing options and considerations for both tactical and strategic nuclear weapons release on China. That we are having this conversation in 2023 is absolutely hilarious when this has been a fact of life since at least the second Bush II administration.
China has also maintained the same stance in more than 20 years.

China will never shoot any type of nukes first (so there won't be any misunderstandings when massed missile waves come in), but it only has city buster nukes deployed, and upon any WMD attack on Chinese assets, it will use city busters, most likely first on military targets so as to allow America to deescalate. Should the attempt to deescalate through escalation fail, then nation destroying strikes will be used for MAD.
 
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