PLA Strategy in a Taiwan Contingency

4Tran

New Member
Registered Member
rare earth sale exchange 100% remove every restriction on ASML vs china trade still good
china can buy lastest chipmaking EUV from ASML enjoy full support , maintain , upgrade , anytime without any US restriction
this agreement can not be remove by next president/grovernment of US and anyone after them

that should be china base line demand from trade talk
China would only agree to this trade if it was feeling extremely generous. The thing is, China can survive and even thrive with the ban on Huawei, the block on semiconductors and EUV machines, and all of the other sanctions imposed by the US. China is able to build new markets and develop similar technologies on its own. In fact, the semiconductor ban can even be seen as a favor because China is now a leading power in the industry where once it was content being just a consumer.

On the other hand, The US is dead China's rare earths. A complete ban on them kills fighter planes, warships, the auto industry, and just about any high tech device that's worth making. China has an effective monopoly for much of this, and while it's possible for the US and its allies to build a rare earth industry, this will take a long time; probably in the neighborhood of 10-20 years. Can you imagine no new American fighter planes for the next 20 years?

In terms of dollar value, the rare earths trade is insignificant. But in terms of importance to global industry, it's more valuable than oil because at least with oil, it's possible to find alternate producers. If China wanted to play hardball, it can get the sun and the moon from the US. I suspect that they will settle for something of far less value, but they will maintain the restrictions on military usage. I also think that these talks will drag on forever, and they'll probably break down a few times.
 

lcloo

Major
RE is extremely powerful card, China should not easily reverse the ban unless US agree to a big concession. It is worth for China to push as hard as possible on the US to get what China wants.

US need RE for their advance weapon platform like F-35 and possibly the 6th gen fighter jets, below is a 3 year old news but I bring it up for people who missed it, especially the new young members.

"Earlier in September the Defense Department temporarily halted Lockheed Martin from delivering the F-35 joint strike fighter after it was discovered that an alloy found in a magnet connected to the aircraft’s engine was derived from China.

Chief of Staff of the Air Force Gen. Charles Q. Brown Jr., reiterated that the engine part did not constitute a security threat or compromise the performance of the engine, but that it did prompt concerns about the integrity of the supply chain."


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Xiongmao

Junior Member
Registered Member
rare earth sale exchange 100% remove every restriction on ASML vs china trade still good
china can buy lastest chipmaking EUV from ASML enjoy full support , maintain , upgrade , anytime without any US restriction
this agreement can not be remove by next president/grovernment of US and anyone after them

that should be china base line demand from trade talk
No, that's not good terms. That's like a mortal fight and China agrees to give up its gun in exchange for the US to give up its pocket knife.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
rare earth sale exchange 100% remove every restriction on ASML vs china trade still good
china can buy lastest chipmaking EUV from ASML enjoy full support , maintain , upgrade , anytime without any US restriction
No, why? Is flooding the Chinese market with ASML good? I think putting everything into the final push so that all Chinese lithographs are Chinese-made is good. Then, expand to the global market with the best prices and performance to slowly squeeze out ASML. That's good.
this agreement can not be remove by next president/grovernment of US and anyone after them
LOLOL That's an impossible request. Any law, any agreement, can be repealed and America is best-known for doing that. You're gonna make them laugh when you request this because they can change the agreement that they can't change the agreement. How do you even imagine that you can enfore this?
that should be china base line demand from trade talk
If we did this, it is to trick them into thinking that they should bite down on the ban, making a further mistake. This request, if granted, is useless to us. It is worse; it is like opening a full bar in the basement for someone who just got past his addiction.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
No, why? Is flooding the Chinese market with ASML good? I think putting everything into the final push so that all Chinese lithographs are Chinese-made is good. Then, expand to the global market with the best prices and performance to slowly squeeze out ASML. That's good.

For Chinese DUV lithography machines, it still looks like a few more years to debug and scale production.
For Chinese EUV lithography machines, my guess is that this is a few years behind DUV machines.

Even if ASML machines flood China, that won't stop the development/production of DUV and EUV machines
So there is no harm in allowing ASML in for a few years.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
For Chinese DUV lithography machines, it still looks like a few more years to debug and scale production.
For Chinese EUV lithography machines, my guess is that this is a few years behind DUV machines.

Even if ASML machines flood China, that won't stop the development/production of DUV and EUV machines
If you wanna see them go slower, let ASML into the Chinese market.
So there is no harm in allowing ASML in for a few years.
No harm? I don't think so. There is no such thing as letting them in for a few years unless they do something stupd enough to get kicked out again, and then we'll have to backtrack on work too. Once they establish, companies use their products and get used to it. They develop techniques unique to these machines instead of Chinese ones. Letting them in for a bit because you think it's no harm is like a former drug addict now clean and at the top of his game sitting down one night and saying there's no harm if he does crack again for just one week.
 

oseaidjubzac

Junior Member
Registered Member
The Taiwan Strait defense wargame has concluded. In the simulation, retired ROC military officers playing the role of the PLA launched a surprise attack from eastern Taiwan. On the first day, the PLA captured Penghu, Kinmen, and Matsu. By the second day, they had taken Taitung, Hualien, and Yilan, effectively splitting Taiwan in two. The ROC forces were forced to make a last stand in Taipei.
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Expert1324

New Member
Registered Member
anyone here familiar with the recent taiwan regional politics? (maybe not recent, i never actually follow it much in the first place).

there's this famous streamer called "guan zhang" who I thought was very very anti-mainland many years ago, is suddenly behaving the complete opposite and scolding the DPP nonstop, and is travelling in the mainland now.

The DPP in general, is also getting super unpopular among almost everyone, (might be happening for some time now, as I said I didnt follow much for a very long time)

Anyone know what is going on? and what does the term “Qing Niao/青鳥" means? I'm very much out of the loop.
 

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
The US will simply ban the support after six months.
The point is less about the short term effects, but more the long term...
How does the Taiwanese economy survive?
What happens when the top performing sector is knocked down? How damaging will it be to other sectors (ie. banking, education)?
Despite leading in semiconductors, there is not much of an tech sector in Taiwan. The software industry is weak, few well known electronics brands, no leading edge tech companies beyond TSMC (ie. logic design, robotics, telecoms, space)
I almost feel like they will need to seek out better relations with the mainland or simply just deal with being a poor(er) country in the future.
 
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