PLA Strategy in a Taiwan Contingency

lcloo

Major
China is the World's largest producer of TBM, at 70% of the World's total production. TBM or Tunnel Boring Machines, have been used to dig hundreds of tunnels through rugged mountains for HSR, motor highways, and thousands of km of metro lines in Chinese cities.

TBM can be used and has been used to dig the rumored 5,000 km Underground Great Wall tunnels for PLA. Whether the tunnel system is 5,000km or not does not matter, but the huge underground system is likely a reality. In WW2, Chinese made use of caves and tunnel to produce weapons, in 1960-1970s many tunnels were built in mountains in anticipation of Soviet attacks.

In comparison, Iran's tunnel systems are tiny, may be just a few hundred km at best.

Saying China is not prepared for a worst war scenario is ignorant.
 
Last edited:

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
I don't think US is a big threat to fight China either. But I do think Japan, Taiwan, South Korea are big threats. These are delusional western worshippers and do hate China with a passion. I don't think they will accept Chinese dominance without a fight. The most likely scenario will likely be these countries trying to acquire nukes and China will be forced to fight a war to prevent them from getting nukes. I think the probability of China being forced to fight Japan is very high.
No, these countries use the US as a backbone. No one has any dreams of fighting China if the US sits back. All Asians other than China are absolute GOATs at accepting a powerful master and living on their knees. There is something strange with you that you think that Chinese rule is so unacceptable in Asia when it is the historic norm.

Many may disagree with me, but I'm not scared of a nuclear Japan. It's way smaller than China and getting nukes won't change the power dynamic at all against China. We don't even have to fight them; we can economically collapse them just by refusing them trade. North Korea doesn't have the USA by the balls just because it's also a nuclear country and neither would Japan have China.
But recent Ukraine and Iran wars have shown none of the so called super powers have the numbers necessary to fight a proper conventional war with a competent opponent. When you compare with the past cold war and ww2 numbers, these countries used to maintain armies of several millions and had the arms stockpile to fight an attritional war.

But I think US success in the gulf war in 1991 had a very negative effect, it made countries believe they dont need to maintain big number of troops or weapons to fight war anymore. They thought technology and air power is sufficient to victory.
1. Russia is still trying to preserve some Slavic brotherhood. They are not fighting as if they were being attacked by a true enemy. They are also preserving their most lethal powers in case of a NATO invasion.
2. Neither have more than a small fraction of China's manufacturing or rare earths hold.
China also fell victim to that and rapidly reduced its armed force numbers and also reduced weapons stockpile, focusing on quality instead of quantity.
If not, then China would fall victim to maintaining thousands of obsolete machines while much farther behind where we currently are in terms of quality and technology. I would much rather the current situation.
I think modern warfare is again becoming more about attrition. Drones and missiles have leveled the playing field. Now you dont need air superiority to cause massive damage to your enemies. And small countries can again fight against big power using drones and missiles.
Only if the big country had suffered the hubris of believing that their size and superiority means they can neglect lower end cheaper weapons like suicide drones and are constrained by production to hold far less missiles. Both are the opposite of China. Mao's China invented the concept of assymetric missile warfare with Chinese missiles being developed long before its air force or navy. The current China is the undisputed master of drones and manufacturing them.

Since you failed to see this, you far oversimplified things into small country doing unexpectedly well against a large country and pigeonholed China into that narrative.
China cannot expect to fight a war in the pacific and expect to win easily even if they achieve air dominance. They will face mass drone and missiles strikes and will likely see its strategic factories, radars and other installations destroyed.
What "mass" drone and missile strikes? These countries don't even know the meaning of "mass" until China unleashes its drones and missiles. Calling their arsenals "mass" when facing China's is like calling a little Japanese kid's firecracker a "mass" explosion when Fat Man was being dropped on him from overhead.
Yes, they can also inflict this damage to its enemies. But that is not the point.
No, it is the point. It's the central point. In a war of attrition, China has more of everything, can make more faster than everyone else put together and has the depth to take more damage than anyone else by far. That's the point.
The point is China cannot gain dominance without massive losses and that will make Chinese leaders reluctant to use force, and thus they will not be able to gain dominance.
Pffft, what kind of fart logic is that? I fixed it for you: The point is Japan/Korea/USA cannot gain dominance even with massive losses and that will make their leaders reject using force, and thus they will not dare fight China.
 
Last edited:

tokenanalyst

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
China will learn lessons from this Iran war.

1. Use of deep underground tunnels for weapons production and weapons storage will be critically important. Having all your production facilities above ground is not wise as it can be damaged or destroyed by missiles or drones.

2. Mass production of suicide drones is an absolute must. Suicide drones can be mass produced in far greater quantities than ballistic and cruise missiles. You can exhaust interceptor missiles using suicide drones and once the interceptor missiles are low the suicide drones will do a lot of damage and be the workhorse instead of exhausting valuable missiles.

3. Without its forward bases, the US military’s abilities are significantly curtailed. US aircraft carriers are reluctant to get close as the risk is too much from drones and missiles to lose such an expensive weapons platform that takes multiple years to build.

4. Japan and Taiwan are islands, they don’t have strategic depth and depend heavily on energy and food imports. Their ability to last a long war is limited.

5. It’s pretty much impossible to defeat modern China in a conventional war with the weapons and production capabilities it has. This is why it’s imperative China modernise its nuclear weapons capabilities and increase the number of nuclear warheads. US will know it can’t defeat China in a conventional war so its only option is going nuclear. This is why the US is trying desperately to get China to agree to nuclear arms control.
Theoretically speaking China could also use their vast civilian resources in a full mobilization. They have like 500,000+ civilian vessels many whom can theoretically speaking be converted into cruise missile boats and suicide drones boats, basically making the biggest sea based militia ever if they get training. They can also convert hundred of thousands heavy trucks into missile launchers.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Meanwhile the war in Iran had caused the China haters in South Korea, Japan and Taiwan to rethink their hatred. They will be cut off from ANY oil supplies coming in. Forget about Russia or the US providing them any oil to fight against China. No amount of praying to their white Jesus will bring them any miracles against those "vile and evil" humanitarian CPC that uplifted 900 million people out of poverty.

China can cut off rare earths minerals to prevent any chips and drones from producing in such numbers for Japan, South Korea and Taiwan. Those three won't just be fighting China, they will be facing pressures from North Korea and Russia in ALL aspects.

"The point is China cannot gain dominance without massive losses and that will make Chinese leaders reluctant to use force, and thus they will not be able to gain dominance."
Iran is taking massive military losses against the US and Israel and they're still in good position to win this. China is much much bigger than Iran.
I must point out that this has a small inaccuracy. Iran has taken massive civilian losses. It has taken few documented military losses.

Among aircraft, the US only destroyed 10 J-7s, 3 F-14s, 2 F-5s and 1 F-4.

The rest of Iranian aircraft destroyed were like civilian Boeing 747 airliners parked at Tehran international airport, counted as "air victories".
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
I don't think US is a big threat to fight China either. But I do think Japan, Taiwan, South Korea are big threats. These are delusional western worshippers and do hate China with a passion. I don't think they will accept Chinese dominance without a fight. The most likely scenario will likely be these countries trying to acquire nukes and China will be forced to fight a war to prevent them from getting nukes. I think the probability of China being forced to fight Japan is very high.

Even if you put (Japan, Taiwan and South Korea) all together, they have a population which is 7x smaller and an economy some 4x smaller than China today.

So they recognise that they are much smaller than China, and it would be foolish to start a war against China.
And from the Chinese perspective, given how much larger China is, this is a manageable situation, even if SK and Japan acquire nuclear weapons.

---

Note that if China continues its peaceful rise and avoids war (unlike the US today which has turned rapacious imperialist), then we'll likely see the Chinese economy grow to 5x larger and trend past 7x larger in 10 years time.



Yes, they can also inflict this damage to its enemies. But that is not the point. The point is China cannot gain dominance without massive losses and that will make Chinese leaders reluctant to use force, and thus they will not be able to gain dominance.

Consider what China will look like in 10 years time.

China will likely become a high-income country and dominate the industries of the future, even in areas such as semiconductors and AI where China lags today.

Now, if Taiwan, South Korea and Japan avoid Chinese technology and the Chinese market, they will likely face declining economies, companies and living standards. In other words, they face becoming irrelevant from a regional and indeed global perspective.
 

Jono

Junior Member
Registered Member
And from the Chinese perspective, given how much larger China is, this is a manageable situation, even if SK and Japan acquire nuclear weapons.
I don't understand how you have arrived at such a conclusion, but in my humble opinion, this statement is plain stupid.
Japan, with its rising militarism-imperialism, and enormous historical damage done to the Chinese people, should be attacked to have its nuclear ambition nipped at the bud stage. Japan is known to take suicidal actions and not hesitant to spring surprise attacks on its opponents, hence a nuclear weapon-capable Japan is very, very dangerous to its neighbours, especially China.
SK, despite its population being boastful and holding an enigmatic superiority complex towards China, has never been a real threat to China. But still, SK should never be allowed to acquire nuclear weapons since it is a US vassal state, subservient to US interests.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
I don't understand how you have arrived at such a conclusion, but in my humble opinion, this statement is plain stupid.
Japan, with its rising militarism-imperialism, and enormous historical damage done to the Chinese people, should be attacked to have its nuclear ambition nipped at the bud stage. Japan is known to take suicidal actions and not hesitant to spring surprise attacks on its opponents, hence a nuclear weapon-capable Japan is very, very dangerous to its neighbours, especially China.
SK, despite its population being boastful and holding an enigmatic superiority complex towards China, has never been a real threat to China. But still, SK should never be allowed to acquire nuclear weapons since it is a US vassal state, subservient to US interests.
I am of the same opinion as he. It is not ideal that Japan or SK get nuclear weapons but depending on the situation and power dynamic, it may not make sense for China to use military power to stop it. If it happens, I also believe it will be very manageable for China and it will not change the power dynamic or calculus at all. Japan is a country that is so frail that Chinese economic hostilities can put them into recession, much less trade bans. So what do we have to fear from them?

In other words, we can game it out. Let's pretend you're Japan and you've acquired nuclear weapons. I'm China. Your economy is languid; my everything is booming. The US will not dare to fight kinetically after realizing its limits in Iran and American power is receeding in Asia to a rising China. What will you do to make trouble for me?
 
I am of the same opinion as he. It is not ideal that Japan or SK get nuclear weapons but depending on the situation and power dynamic, it may not make sense for China to use military power to stop it. If it happens, I also believe it will be very manageable for China and it will not change the power dynamic or calculus at all. Japan is a country that is so frail that Chinese economic hostilities can put them into recession, much less trade bans. So what do we have to fear from them?

In other words, we can game it out. Let's pretend you're Japan and you've acquired nuclear weapons. I'm China. Your economy is languid; my everything is booming. The US will not dare to fight kinetically after realizing its limits in Iran and American power is receeding in Asia to a rising China. What will you do to make trouble for me?
I'm not convinced - I believe that the more hopeless the economic situation is for Japan, the more likely it is for Japan to pursue rash actions. The most dangerous type of person is one who has nothing to lose. Once you get to the point of even considering nuking another nuclear power - are you really going to be thinking about economic repercussions? "Yes, I am aware that they have 1500 nukes available for a retaliatory strike - but at the moment I am more concerned about them retaliating with a trade embargo!"
 
Last edited:

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
I'm not convinced - I believe that the more hopeless the economic situation is for Japan, the more likely it is for Japan to pursue rash actions. The most dangerous type of person is one who has nothing to lose. Once you get to the point of even considering nuking another nuclear power - are you really going to be thinking about economic repercussions? "Yes, I am aware that they have 1500 nukes available for a retaliatory strike - but at the moment I am more concerned about them retaliating with a trade embargo!"
So same question to you as to him: As Japan, what would you do to make trouble for China? How do you hope such trouble will benefit you? Your timer is running out as your economy cannot sustain a military buildup while China's is growing like weeds. You also cannot survive any retaliation while China is vast with many structures designed to withstand nuclear war. What would you do? Literally try to bait China into a conflict where you nuke each other? Just nuke China out of nowhere and see what you get back?
 
So same question to you as to him: As Japan, what would you do to make trouble for China? How do you hope such trouble will benefit you? Your timer is running out as your economy cannot sustain a military buildup while China's is growing like weeds. You also cannot survive any retaliation while China is vast with many structures designed to withstand nuclear war. What would you do? Literally try to bait China into a conflict where you nuke each other? Just nuke China out of nowhere and see what you get back?
We are discussing the culture that gave birth to and glorifies seppuku, the banzai charge, and kamikaze attacks.
 
Top