PLA Small arms


ohan_qwe

Junior Member
You can't use HMG like GPMG for the simple reason of ammo volume.
Sure the gun is smaller and lighter, but the volume and weight of the ammo doesn't change, so you are only carrying about half the amount.
Not to mention the bulk of 12.7mm class weapons. With a GPMG, you can still maneuver similar to a rifleman, but not so much with a HMG.
You don't always have to copy the solution as long as the problem is solved.

What will not having an GPMG but only SAW and HMG mean tactically? SAW should cover distances up to 500m, beyond that maybe HMG is better than GPMG. Current wars have often been against unarmored insurgents. If the enemy drives around in MRAP a HMG could be more useful.

Just like some countries have rockets in squads while others have weapon squads in platoons. If I'm not mistaken 5.8mm is designed to out penetrate 7.62x54r out to 800m

This source thinks that 50cal gives best suppression per KG ammo.

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by78

Lieutenant General
The new uniforms look good.

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supersnoop

Senior Member
Registered Member
You don't always have to copy the solution as long as the problem is solved.

What will not having an GPMG but only SAW and HMG mean tactically? SAW should cover distances up to 500m, beyond that maybe HMG is better than GPMG. Current wars have often been against unarmored insurgents. If the enemy drives around in MRAP a HMG could be more useful.

Just like some countries have rockets in squads while others have weapon squads in platoons. If I'm not mistaken 5.8mm is designed to out penetrate 7.62x54r out to 800m

This source thinks that 50cal gives best suppression per KG ammo.

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View attachment 78824

Your logic is kind of faulty. I can kill a a mosquito with a baseball bat, and the problem is solved right? Yes, it would be, but doesn't make it the best option. So if you try to deploy HMG in a way like GPMG, then it is wasting the range advantage.

You also mention both unarmoured and MRAPs, what are you planning to face? Both? Unarmored insurgents probably aren’t driving MRAPs, so which is it? Against unarmoured targets 12.7mm is overkill.

Even if 12.7mm is a more effective weapon per weight, carrying less ammo means you are putting more strain on the logistics chain, shorter patrols etc. Also it would be a disadvantage in an extended firefight where you are trying to maximize bullets down range.

Weapon bulkiness is also a real issue. You are going to have a long barrel no matter the weight, that makes it an issue moving in any narrow spaces, urban or wooded areas. Long barrel also means you have to use bipod/tripod to be most effective. Also, in case of mechanized infantry, you are taking up space in the vehicle which already is contending with soldiers with increasing gear demands like body armour, digital gear, etc.

Your interpretation of the data isn't really optimal either. While 12.7mm might look like the best, 7.62 rounds are already reaching close to 90% suppression (by their measure) at typical infantry engagement ranges (400m and under), while 5.56mm is not. So you would trade off twice the suppression time for those marginal gains.

But look at the other thing your chart is telling you. You are getting a lot of performance from 338 rounds without doubling the ammo volume. Is it any surprise that the next-gen GPMG is looking at that round?

It's funny, you can do all these academic studies and research on the net, but most of this is quite obvious even with a few months of basic infantry training.
 

plawolf

Brigadier
You can't use HMG like GPMG for the simple reason of ammo volume.
Sure the gun is smaller and lighter, but the volume and weight of the ammo doesn't change, so you are only carrying about half the amount.
Not to mention the bulk of 12.7mm class weapons. With a GPMG, you can still maneuver similar to a rifleman, but not so much with a HMG.
I actually agree with you, you don’t want to use a HMG like a GPMP mainly because the primary job of a GPMG is not to kill the enemy but to encourage him to keep his head down behind cover.

But very little cover can stand up to 50cal machine gun fire, so why do you need to expend hundreds of rounds just to keep a few guys pinned behind a wall when you can just obliterate the wall along with them in a few short bursts instead?

US/western infantry tactics evolved around unchallenged air dominance against outmatched foes. So their infantry is less interested in destroying the enemy than pinging them for air strikes and/or artillery to finish off.

For good or ill, Chinese ground forces prefer to do the destroying themselves.
 

by78

Lieutenant General
Cross-posting from the Infantry Combat Equipment thread. An equipment exhibit held by the 72nd Group Army. The soldiers appear to sport a new (smart/infrared?) gun sight. The original poster speculates that these are special forces soldiers embedded within the 72nd Group Army.

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