PLA Small arms

Aniah said:

Is the Israeli Carry really that bad? I also watch the PLA and PAP on Douyin do it but never really understood it.

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LawLeadsToPeace said:

The Israeli carry can slow down your reaction time since you would have to rack your pistol’s slide in order to load one round into the chamber. If your pistol is on safety as well, your reaction time will be even slower. However supporters believe that your pistol can potentially go off due to temperature, body movement, and etc. It has always been a point of contention among concealed carry weapon (ccw) permit holders, police and military. I would have to agree with @Norinco_81 in regards to the safety mechanism since it is redundant if you are using the Israeli carry.

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Yes, thanks for pointing out the main reason why I do not advocate "Israeli carry". Its an outdated practice that was actually first developed by British asshole W.E. Fairbairn and got its name from Israel's first War Of Independence, where they used any surplus weapons of various degrees of quality they could get their hands on. With more modern handguns with drop safeties there is no reason for this method to even exist.

I've been carrying one of my Glock 19s as a CCW for years always Condition 1 and haven't had it go off by itself and I live in a place that gets very hot in the summer. I use good holsters and prefer the simplicity of a Glock, not having to worry about an external safety when I have to deploy it.

Norinco_81 said:

Its an outdated practice that was actually first developed by British asshole W.E. Fairbairn

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Out of curiosity, what's make Fairbairn an asshole? I know he served as a cop in Shanghai and was a Royal Marine and instructor for the Commandos and Rangers.

Norinco_81 said:

I've been carrying one of my Glock 19s as a CCW for years always Condition 1 and haven't had it go off by itself and I live in a place that gets very hot in the summer. I use good holsters and prefer the simplicity of a Glock, not having to worry about an external safety when I have to deploy it.

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Yep. If a pistol were to go off due to temperature, movement, and other, to be honest, negligible variables, it's badly designed.

LawLeadsToPeace said:

Out of curiosity, what's make Fairbairn an asshole? I know he served as a cop in Shanghai and was a Royal Marine and instructor for the Commandos and Rangers.

Yep. If a pistol were to go off due to temperature, movement, and other, to be honest, negligible variables, it's badly designed.

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I am against western imperialism and his being in the Shanghai Municipal Police was a contributor to it. Also the fact that he created this carry method in the first place, I wouldn't be surprised if the PLA, PAP and Russia got it from him. I simply do not see any merit in this carry method at all. If brass is so worried about NDs, then they are part of the problem by not providing adequate firearms training.

Maybe for troops that go for their rifles first pistol reaction time isn't so crucial?

no_name said:

Maybe for troops that go for their rifles first pistol reaction time isn't so crucial?

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Riflemen typically dont carry pistols; however PAP, SWAT, and PLA SOF are different stories since they have to respond quickly. Regardless, reaction time is important since you want to kill your enemy asap. One can argue that firefights typically happen 300 meters away, so drawing a pistol quick enough isnt crucial. However if you read stories about soldiers who fought in urban centers, youll find that reaction time is extremely important. In short, reaction time is extremely important to have for any soldier in the battlefield. I can't think of any reason that could justify why would one NOT practice skills that would enhance their effectiveness in combat.

LawLeadsToPeace said:

Riflemen typically dont carry pistols; however PAP, SWAT, and PLA SOF are different stories since they have to respond quickly. Regardless, reaction time is important since you want to kill your enemy asap. One can argue that firefights typically happen 300 meters away, so drawing a pistol quick enough isnt crucial. However if you read stories about soldiers who fought in urban centers, youll find that reaction time is extremely important. In short, reaction time is extremely important to have for any soldier in the battlefield. I can't think of any reason that could justify why would one NOT practice skills that would enhance their effectiveness in combat.

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I feel like this was due to the PLA and PAP having a history of terrible and unreliable pistols given to them. I've heard stories of how bad their qualities of firearms were 10 or 20 years ago and while it seems that the quality has already improved and safety should no longer be a problem, they never really got rid of that practice. Kinda like the US military keeping the forward assist in a kinda way.

LawLeadsToPeace said:

Riflemen typically dont carry pistols; however PAP, SWAT, and PLA SOF are different stories since they have to respond quickly. Regardless

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Not quite. Generally this will differ based on national doctrine and a number of factors including specialty. A basic E1 soldier probably won’t have a pistol but in many armies the SAW gunner will. The guy with the RPG or ATGM will. The NCO might, assuming that the army in question has a professional Non commissioned corps and it isn’t just private snuffy knows how to drive so he is now the General’s chauffeur making sure the Audi Staff car is polished and the engine is warm. Medics, Provost and Pilots/Tank and fighting vehicles crews will. Officers definitely will.
Pistols in many armies are a status symbol. Even in the US. Some armies are such that the higher the rank the smaller the pistol others will have the pistol more customized. So the Lt will have the full sized service handgun but the major has a compact the general has a pocket pistol. Or the Lt will be bare bones stock blued and plastic but the general will have will have wood or ivory handle grip panels on a Nickel plated side arm Or at the very least his rank insignia engraved.
The primary role of a pistol is to fight well the rifle is down or until one becomes available. The Whole SA/DA is dated Increasingly the DAO is becoming the standard for armies with wide adoption of the Glock and similar types. On the whole Armies are big organizations which tend to favor big organization thinking on marksmanship. IE Bean counters wanting to know every bullet and allocate just a set number. This especially gets bad in countries with restrictions on civil firearms. Where in some cases even spent brass has to be accounted for.

A small suppressor?

by78 said:

A small suppressor?

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Not a suppressor, but a compensator. These are used to mitigate recoil.

They demo the compensator @22:00