PLA Small arms

Apparently a Norinco marked pistol frame strongly resembling a Glock gen 3 has been spotted. The origin of the photos is Paul Kim.

Has Gen 3 style features with Gen 4 texturing but stock glock style build. Glock clones are popular due to the pistol's almost ubiquitous nature. Clones of the Design have appeared in the US, South Korea, Russia, Turkey and Iran just to name a few Some are totally unlicenced. Others are licensed and some are extensively modified to not has to be blatant copies.
Now before someone jumps in and says "It's not a clone there is no slide". See that metal plate under the dust cover, That plate makes this the Pistol. even if you slap a Glock manufacture barrel and slide on this is the pistol because that is the serial number. the Part with the Serial number is legally the pistol. This is how a Slide assembly and barrel are easy to buy because the part that is the pain to get is the Serial numbered frame.
Now as we know NORINCO has from time to time copied foreign weapons, CZ75 ( but then everyone did, CZ didn't patent the pistol till later), AR15, Sig220, MP5 ecta so it's not unheard of.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

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Apparently a Norinco marked pistol frame strongly resembling a Glock gen 3 has been spotted. The origin of the photos is Paul Kim.
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Has Gen 3 style features with Gen 4 texturing but stock glock style build. Glock clones are popular due to the pistol's almost ubiquitous nature. Clones of the Design have appeared in the US, South Korea, Russia, Turkey and Iran just to name a few Some are totally unlicenced. Others are licensed and some are extensively modified to not has to be blatant copies.
Now before someone jumps in and says "It's not a clone there is no slide". See that metal plate under the dust cover, That plate makes this the Pistol. even if you slap a Glock manufacture barrel and slide on this is the pistol because that is the serial number. the Part with the Serial number is legally the pistol. This is how a Slide assembly and barrel are easy to buy because the part that is the pain to get is the Serial numbered frame.
Now as we know NORINCO has from time to time copied foreign weapons, CZ75 ( but then everyone did, CZ didn't patent the pistol till later), AR15, Sig220, MP5 ecta so it's not unheard of.

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Have seen it in Larry Vicker's fb posts and naturally, replies are predominantly dizzing at MiC products...can't blame them, though, MiC guns ain't known to be on par with Europe and US made models.

How much they (be that Norinco or any other Glock clone manufacturer) can get away from depends on the patent expiry for Glock (not there sure about Gen3 or Gen4 Glock, welcome input in this department, enlighten us all, thanks in advance), just like MP5 series now can be legally cloned by anyone, alas part interchangeability is another thing entirely...

Glock like most firearms has evolved there design over the years this is the "Generation" Glock divides there pistols into models referring to size and caliber so a Glock 17 is full size 9mm well a Glock 22 is the same size but .40Sw Glock 19 is a smaller 9mm well 26 is the smallest in the same. well 34 is the long slide Glock 17.
Generations cme in referring to other changes made. Even if the caliber and model didn't exist prior to when the "Generation" was started it falls into this
The mechanics have remained more or less the same but each generation is an improved design.
Gen 1 glock were the initial production back in 1982.


Gen 2 introduced in 1988 They refined the grip and Slide release, They also added the Steel plate to the dust cover to meet US ATF regulations allowing import to the US, a feature visible on the Norinco frame and changed the floor plate of the magazine and changed the recoil spring. Taiwanese t97 pistols were inspired by this design with the addition of a slide mounted safety, a feature Glock has added to it's pistols for use by armies that demand such.

Gen 3 1998 The Glock rail was added ( not the same as the industry standard rail ) A feature visible on the Norinco frame. The grip was changed again with the terrible finger grooves Which are visible on the Norinco marked frame, they also added the Thumb relief and there were there changes to the internals ( also on the Norinco)

Gen 4 in 2010 They reduced the size of the grip, a long time complaint of the pistol due to its "Block" like profile, They changed the texture of the grip which is close to that seen on the Norinco pistol. Glock pistols introduced modular back straps on gen 4 to allow the user to scale up or down the grip a feature not apparent on the Norinco pistol They also changed the recoil system.

Gen 4M 2016 as minor upgrades for the FBI and NYPD In some ways a prototype for the Gen 5.

and Gen 5 2017 This is the latest Glock iteration, They got rid of the finger grooves, Ambi Slide stock, Changes to the surface coatings of the barrel and slide, New Refilling, Flared magwell with moon shaped cut outs, redesigned magazine floor plates

So that all done We look back at the pistol frame with the Norinco marks, It has a lot of features form the 3 frame with the texture of the 4. Since the pistol is incomplete we can't comment on the slide but the control spaces are there and match a Gen 3 Glock.

by78 said:

More photos of various after-market uppers and scopes.

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Just noticed that the SMG have a grip safety on it. Interesting design.

As for the Glocks, I think Norinco can get away with it if they are only selling to countries that are arms emargoed by the EU, since Glock could not be legally sold to those countries.

ahho said:

As for the Glocks, I think Norinco can get away with it if they are only selling to countries that are arms emargoed by the EU, since Glock could not be legally sold to those countries.

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Glock could still sue if it violated active patents and was sold to anyone. That's the point of a Patent.
The Gen 1 Glock is now about 30 years old so Glonging a Gen 1 falls into the end of patent even Gen 2 should be expiring hitting the 20 year mark soon ( end of Patent) but it's that iffy zone that the PRC always seems to fall into.

ahho said:

Just noticed that the SMG have a grip safety on it. Interesting design.

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Not unheard of in a SMG
UZI and it's clones the FMK3 and Socimi Type 821-SMG, Early 9mm AR15s and Beretta M12 all have one.

Lucky guy got up close and personal with an armed police 95-1


Vid starts at 1:17

Disassembly at 6:23

Shooting at 18:35

Posted in the ZH05 thread.

Hendrik_2000 said:

I don't have a clue about machine gun but this video is about new 7.62 gun

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The NAR series rifles. They are often called China's Scar. So far they have appeared in 5.56 NATO, 7.62x39mm and 7.62x51mm. SO far no signs of 5.45x39 or 5.8x42mm which makes me think so far Export only. There seems to be 3 barrel lengths per caliber this fits with the international standard so a short length like 11.5, a medium length like 14.5 and a long length like 18 inches for 5.56
12.5 short, 16.5 medium and maybe an RPK length 23 inches for the long 7.62x39
The Claim is that like the SCAR you can change from 5.56x45 to 7.62x39mm which is actually these days not uncommon.
But looking at there system I suspect that the 7.62x51mm NATO is harder to change up. That version I suspect is the replacement for the LR14 offering, Thus far there seems to be only the long barrel DMR version but It might have other versions. because of the Battle rifle nature of the 7.62 NATO it's generally not done with Short barrels. The SCAR H came in a 20 inch, a 16 inch and a 13 inch barreled version, although I have heard of 8 inch barreled FAL's generally that's a toy and not a military weapon.
the weapon has M1913 rails and Keymod
it also has its own model of grenade launcher given the export nature of the rifle my bet is 40x46mm NATO.
the color is a dark earth much like the SCAR.
It also seems to have a folding stock. Manual of arms seems to be that of the Type 81, Charging handle in the ejection port this differs from the QBZ03 and is closer to the Type 81.
safety selector in the thumb most seem to be right handers with the selector on the left side although it may be reversible as there is clearly a opening on the right.
Stock appears to fold over the right side of the weapon and adjust for length of pull.
Operation is as yet unconfirmed however it has what looks to be an adjustable gas port, My bet is a variation of the of the system in the Type 81 a short stroke piston.

Just wondering why the Chinese military and police stick to iron sights rather than various electronic scopes available and could be easily manufactured in various optical factories across China. Costs? Traditional habits of reliance on iron sight?

Doctrine and cost is the best answer. We know the PLA has some optical scopes and that there are reflex sights of commercial grade made in the PRC.
Doctrine, Some one pointed out to me recently that the South Koreans don't widely issue accessories to there troops either, That's because of there Doctrine. They have some world class red dots and could easily build carbines with M1913 rails, They choose not to.
If there is a "solid" reason it's probably the budgetary reasoning. IE why pay for fancy do-dads for regular infantry?
I mean again South Korea doesn't, Japan only issues such to SF and those few cases when they send troops abroad for humanitarian efforts.