PLA Next Generation Main Battle Tank

Tomboy said:

Muzzle velocity doesn't mean much(Unless extremely high like >2000m/s then it could mean something interesting is going on here) unless you consider the total muzzle energy(M829A4 has a muzzle energy of ~13MJ which is a ~45 percent increase over this 105mm projectile), which is far more important, sure I can shoot a very light projectile extremely fast, but it'll do less damage compared to a slower but much heavier projectile with much more muzzle energy. You mention HE shells being awesome, well guess what larger calibers are good at? Even if they can make a 105mm projectile match current NATO 120mm AP projectiles(I'm not doubting this, it could obviously be done), there is almost no way you can make a 105mm ever have as much explosive filler as a 120mm or 125mm due to inherent size limit. Same also applies to gun launched AGTMs(Which rifled barrels makes designs more complicated) and advanced multipurpose rounds, they are going to suffer from less payload and less range due to limited size.

Advanced ETC guns like XM291(Relatively old gun) is already approaching 105mm guns in weight with much better versatility, plus is trading a much better gun for an extra ~500kg worth it? Sure, I understand making it light weight but ~40 tons fully armored is already extremely good especially if peak power of >1500hp can be expected due to hybrid powertrain, at some point making a tank lighter only gains limited logistical benefit at the expense of decreasing firepower and armor which are critical for an MBT. Also, I'm more convinced these tanks are meant for expeditionary warfare and not the Indian border which the ZTQ-15s already do a good job of protecting, for expeditionary missions the threats you face become much more versatile you could potentially face heavily armored NATO MBTs, old T-72s and anything in between meaning even if you don't have enough armor to defend against you could atleast have the ability to kill which is something this tank apparently lacks. As I mentioned above, this tank also seems to be lackluster in overall firepower compared to current MBTs even for non-antitank duties due to a smaller caliber. Assuming all of these claims about the new tank are true I'm beginning to doubt its role as a future MBT and perhaps it really is just a ZTQ-15 replacement or maybe similar to the Booker assault gun type thingamajig.

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qwerty3173 said:

ETC technology is still a bit over the horizon, pretty sure that the new gun is in fact not an ETC which still suffers a lot from barrel corrosion and electronical overheating and stuff. With APFSDS penetration the diameter of the shot is nearly useless in increasing penetration. Length is the primary deciding factor but the M829 series already capped that dimension due to physical restraints of the gun. For DU rods speed increases may not be very effective but for tungsten rods that can withstand higher impact velocities penetration increases quite rapidly with speed. The reason that US rounds carry much more energy is simply because that the penetrator is thicker to withstand firing stresses but advanced tungsten alloys are much stronger inherently so better length to diameter ratio. Its simply material science improvements which are the result of more research and applications of tungsten which China has an abundance of.

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Tomboy said:

No matter what material science is used here will not change the fact that muzzle energy is still an extremely important factor here, advanced material science only really helps you use energy of the penetrator more efficiently hence you still need a high energy projectile for extreme performance. It is not a "side effect" of having a thicker penetrator but a very important spec.

Also, from most available sources DU penetrator still outperforms traditional WHA penetrators with only recent advanced like nanograined WHA and other advanced alloys closing the gap.

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Tomboy said:

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If 750mm is the projectile then this new ammo will on paper fall short of even US last generation ammo, the M829A3, which had a projectile length of 924mm and estimated penetrator length of 770mm. In fact, US ETC cannons have much higher muzzle energy as well, the XM291 120mm achieved nearly 17MJ of muzzle energy while this new projectile seems to only have half that.

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AndrewJ said:

Many rumors are also saying it's equipped with electromagnetic armor. I remember there're some Chinese papers about it sometime ago. Any assessment on that?

Will it be able to withhold modern anti-armor munitions like APFSDS & HEAT?

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qwerty3173 said:

There are two types of electromagnetic armor, one is simply an improved type of heavy ERA that has its explosives ignited by electricity, which enables perfect ignition timing and safety. The other is a more ambitious approach, charging armor to run gigantic currents through any penetrating object. It works marvels against HEAT rounds but isn't very effective against long rod penetrators.

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Nx4eu said:

You also have to look at what China’s threat are. They aren’t going to face NATO style heavy MBTs with crazy armor protection. They will face tanks like the T-72 Ajeya, T-90 Bhishma and the Zorawar on the Himalayas and Tibetan plateau.

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