PLA missile defense system

Baibar of Jalat

Junior Member
lol indian times said that the indian engineers smiled at China's pathetic lil tests and say that they are working on something a lot better...

but just because China would deploy such system doesnt mean that it'll cancel out india's nuclear threat. just like i highly doubt that the US will ignore China's nuclear strength because it has the NMD

Indian military tend to flip flop on China, they state China is modernising very fast, but still say they can win 96hrs. In other articles they claim their own tanks are night (80%), whereas 100% of Chinese tanks have average to excellent night version capability.

Overall they underestimate OPFOR and overestimate own forces.

The media and fanboy military enthuasiasts are even more rabid.
Roger604
Well, the deployment of such a system would make India's very limited nuclear deterrent totally ineffective against China. India only has SRBM called Privthi with ~300 km. They are still trying to work out the problems in their ~1500 km MRBM Agni-II, but that missile is so slender and unwieldy it's probably never going to work right. India has a lot to be worried about with China's ABM.

Said it perfectly, even if IRBM is successfully deployed ther ABM should be effective against any IRBM, obviously the ABM will not be 100% against them. I think HQ 9 and S 300 PMU2 are capable of targetting SRBM, so I confidently conclude ABM would be designed for longer range missiles?
 
Last edited:

Roger604

Senior Member
Said it perfectly, even if IRBM is successfully deployed ther ABM should be effective against any IRBM, obviously the ABM will not be 100% against them. I think HQ 9 and S 300 PMU2 are capable of targetting SRBM, so I confidently conclude ABM would be designed for longer range missiles?

Yes that's right. These are completely different systems. The most basic ABM are those for targeting rudimentary Scud-type, liquid-fueled ballistic missiles.

Patriot has this capability (but only perfected in PAC-3). More advanced version of S-300 has this capability too. There's no official statement on whether HQ-9 has it, but since HQ-9 is roughly equivalent to PMU-1 / PMU-2 it is likely. Even India is developing this capability thanks to Israeli assistance and selling Green Pine radar. Israel is a leader in this kind of ABM -- they even have systems designed for Hezbollah rockets and artillery fire.


The next level up -- and a significant level up -- is the mid-course ABM, which is also related to direct-ascent ASAT. As far as I know, only USA and China has indigenously developed this ability (Japan purchased SM-3 though). This type of ABM is used against any ballistic missile that travels outside the atmosphere -- MRBM and IRBM.

The only deployed system of this type is sea-based Aegis theater ABM. The longer-range, larger coverage ground-based NMD has run into a lot of problems. It's nowhere near deployed.


The current limitations of mid-course ABM is that it's ineffective against MIRVs and decoys. It's also not very reliable against higher velocity ICBM. Another technical limitations to ABM in general is that there is currently no effective defense against ballistic missiles more advanced than Scud-type, liquid fueled in the terminal phase -- such as China's DF-11C. Systems that attempt this like THAAD have run into serious technical problems. Nor is there any solution against a mass barage of long-range rocket artillery like WS-2 / WS-3.


India is in a tough spot because its Privthi is a rudimentary, liquid-fueled SRBM -- vulnerable to HQ-9. Its Agni-II if and when that becomes operational is vulnerable to China's mid-course ABM (and too short ranged for strategic purpose). Its Agni-III if and when that becomes operational is still vulnerable to China's mid-course ABM, and it's not adaptable for MIRV. India would need to develop a whole new IRBM / SLBM that can be adapted to MIRV, overcome technical challenges to MIRV, develop fusion weapons and manufacture enough missiles and warheads in order to have a real deterrent.
 
Last edited:

Infra_Man99

Banned Idiot
To the people using red font: I think only moderators are allowed to use red font. Also, please calm down and use more brain power. You sound like a little kid or a psychopath.

I don't think China should become a warmongering nation for various, obvious reasons. I think China should better focus on self-defense and not go around causing trouble no matter how strong its military is. Look what European colonialism led to, and look what the Bush/Obama Doctrine is leading to. If you succeed in conquering another nation, then you gain resources, but you lose morals. Destructive morals will gradually ruin any nation. Even then, the probability of conquest in today's world is slim, but the probability of wasting resources, ruining lives, and losing worldwide respect is high.

Anyhow, China's test was secretive. China did not and will not reveal the sophistication of the test. China probably shot down a simple ballistic missile on their own schedule from a known area.

In a real war, China's ABM still has to deal with decoys and multiple warheads, from the target missile, various types of maneuvers from the target missile and its package, jamming from various sources (weapons systems do work together as a team), attacks from various sources, and tracking target missiles from far away. I doubt China can effectively track missiles from all of India, Russia, Europe, Israel, and the US. China still has to build up layers of military defense against various threats at various ranges and altitudes to have a good anti-missile and anti-ballistic missile system. China is a long way from achieving this.

China's long term plan is to have trustworthy relations with Pakistan and India (as difficult as this may sound). China is working to have many cooperative war games with India and cooperative economic deals with India. I agree with China that its best defense against all threats is to build positive relations with other nations, and the military is only for self-defense.

I think China should have invited Indian leaders to talk about China's ABM. Don't reveal critical information, but let the Indians know China has zero interest in attacking India as long as India does not attack China. India does have legitimate reasons to dislike China's ABM, and China needs to properly address those issues with India. Otherwise, China is acting scary to India.

It's like firearms for self-defense. Firearms are only for the real bad guys. Otherwise, solve neighborhood problems in a positive manner. If your neighbor's dog digs up your lawn, then you wave your shotgun in your neighbor's face, then you're greatly overreacting and you have a high probability of making things worse.
 
Last edited:

Harley-One

Banned Idiot
You fellows need to read the rules..

FORUM RULES: Things to Remember Before Posting, important, please read!



Any more discussion of politics and this thread will be closed and warnings issued.

bd popeye super moderator & Grand Pubah

Administration, China Defense:

I've heard a lot of -- :D complements :D -- about C-Defense throughout the years; signed up some while back because of its prominence; clicks in every now and then ever since to see the goings ons; discouragingly, no activity, the forum was dead quite each time I sign in; most all postings predates back months to 06, 07, '08 in many instances and, it wasn't until recently that it started up again that I finally find an interest in taking part in the discussions, but, I now know why C-Defense is such a renown and prominent watering hole -- it's because of that cool "send you back to the stone ages moderation mentality" that exists here which even I now finds to be too much after but only a few postings... In other words: I get the message, I get the writtings between the lines, I get the picture... but does the various moderators here get this message I presenting???

Indeed, I can understand the color font, but, tell me how you can distinguish politics from missile defense, from J-10's, from 093 094 SSNB, and, from F-22 Raptors!!!! I challenge the moderators to permit this post to remain as is for an indefinite period to not have it deleted so that all may get a chance to weight in because this subject -- DESERVES ALL OF OUR ATTENTIONS. I concede and am taking this - an experience.

Goodbye and thank you for the welcome.

mods note >>> The no politics rule was formed 4 years ago when this forum erupted in chaos as the political forces took sides. It was decided then that discussing politics would not be allowed in this forum so our forum would not deteriorate into a PRC Vs ROC or USA or Japan etc discussion. Feel free to post as you wish within the parameters of the rules.

bd popeye super moderator
 
Last edited by a moderator:

pla101prc

Senior Member
You fellows need to read the rules..

FORUM RULES: Things to Remember Before Posting, important, please read!



Any more discussion of politics and this thread will be closed and warnings issued.

bd popeye super moderator & Grand Pubah

LMAO just cant help but to laugh at your iron fist sometimes, especially some of the poor new guys who didnt get used to the rules yet like that other guy who tried to "organize a debate" on the patriot missile sale.

inframan just dont expect this kind of system to work at all, for every bit of modification one side makes on its nuclear weapons, the other side might have to come up with a whole new system to defeat it. the whole notion of shooting down every incoming missile is just stupid, unless you are 100 times richer than the other country dont expect such a system to work at all. i doubt China's CNMD, even after it is perfected and deployed, can effectively cancel out india's nuclear capability. who knows how much the latter will progress in the coming years. so my argument remains to be that the real value is still the technology that is involved in the system not the system itself.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Harley-One

Banned Idiot
LMAO just cant help but to laugh at your iron fist sometimes, especially some of the poor new guys who didnt get used to the rules yet like that other guy who tried to "organize a debate" on the patriot missile sale.

inframan just dont expect this kind of system to work at all, for every bit of modification one side makes on its nuclear weapons, the other side might have to come up with a whole new system to defeat it. the whole notion of shooting down every incoming missile is just stupid, unless you are 100 times richer than the other country dont expect such a system to work at all. i doubt China's CNMD, even after it is perfected and deployed, can effectively cancel out india's nuclear capability. who knows how much the latter will progress in the coming years. so my argument remains to be that the real value is still the technology that is involved in the system not the system itself.


if it weren't because military = politics and politics = military and the rules of the land here dictates that my hands be tied, then you can bet that the politics in within your post will be challenges, if not by anyone else in this board, then it would definitely be by me. it's so sad that a red blooded chinese boy as myself, and others too of course, can't engage others in the defense of the honor of his chinese nation because politics is not permitted [in a none other but politically affiliated] domain...
 

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
I think the whole concept of interceptor based BMD is really overblown. It's a highly inefficient and difficult way to intercept missiles compared to lasers, and it's only a matter of a few years before lasers will be completely able to do the job. All of these billions of dollars spent on missiles made to intercept ballistic missiles have been wasted basically.
 

pla101prc

Senior Member
if it weren't because military = politics and politics = military and the rules of the land here dictates that my hands be tied, then you can bet that the politics in within your post will be challenges, if not by anyone else in this board, then it would definitely be by me. it's so sad that a red blooded chinese boy as myself, and others too of course, can't engage others in the defense of the honor of his chinese nation because politics is not permitted [in a none other but politically affiliated] domain...

it doesnt matter what your intention is, what matters is its gonna derail the discussion.
i am about as political as any human being can get at my age, i had problems staying away from politics when i was a recruit here, got used to it afterwards.
 
Top