PLA Ground Forces news, pics and videos

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Sunbud

Junior Member
Registered Member
KampfAlwin said:
There’s a gaping hole in the middle of the barrel cylinders. I wonder if they can fit an autocannon there
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You can sure put clothes in there to spin dry. Basically a tumble dryer. Heats and spins.

interesting to see them experimenting with even higher rates of fire despite already having among the most powerful CIWS in world with the Type 1130 which fires 30mm at 10,000 RPM (double the Phalanx, and the Phalanx is 20mm). Instead of looking at deploying something with a lower rate of fire but more advanced smart munitions.
 
broadsword

broadsword

Brigadier
Sunbud said:
You can sure put clothes in there to spin dry. Basically a tumble dryer. Heats and spins.

interesting to see them experimenting with even higher rates of fire despite already having among the most powerful CIWS in world with the Type 1130 which fires 30mm at 10,000 RPM (double the Phalanx, and the Phalanx is 20mm). Instead of looking at deploying something with a lower rate of fire but more advanced smart munitions.
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Something like a guided 155mm shell that could hit missile would be nice.
 
plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Sunbud said:
You can sure put clothes in there to spin dry. Basically a tumble dryer. Heats and spins.

interesting to see them experimenting with even higher rates of fire despite already having among the most powerful CIWS in world with the Type 1130 which fires 30mm at 10,000 RPM (double the Phalanx, and the Phalanx is 20mm). Instead of looking at deploying something with a lower rate of fire but more advanced smart munitions.
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Smart munitions are good against high volume low speed incomings like Harpoon spam. Against super and hypersonics, smart munitions will do very little.

The insane RPM is to throw so much high explosive lead at an incoming so quickly you literally vaporise so much of it what’s left won’t cause much more than superficial damage akin to taking small arms fire.
 
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Heliox

Junior Member
Registered Member
t2contra said:
Something like a guided 155mm shell that could hit missile would be nice.
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The Oto Melera 76/62 with DART/Strales should interest you then.

plawolf said:
Smart munitions are good against high volume low speed incomings like Harpoon spam. Against super and hypersonics, smart munitions will do very little.

The insane RPM is to throw so much high explosive lead at an incoming so quickly you literally vaporise so much of it what’s left won’t cause much more than superficial damage akin to taking small arms fire.
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The Leonardo company will respectfully disagree with you on this.

Smart munitions will require larger calibre which means slower ROF but it will come with longer range which will push the engagement envelope further out. This should allow for a bigger engagement window and less requirement to "obliterate" the incoming missile.

IMO, there are multiple solutions from the one end of ultimate smart guided munition being the anti-missile missile and down the gamut to smart/guided rounds to unguided wall of lead.

I respect the wall of lead argument especially when it comes to obliterating the incoming AShM to reduce the danger of secondary fragments. I have my reservations about the ability of dumb rounds against maneuvering targets.

It all boils down to the pro/con of each solution and the other layers of Fleet AD that support them.
 
plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Heliox said:
The Oto Melera 76/62 with DART/Strales should interest you then.



The Leonardo company will respectfully disagree with you on this.

Smart munitions will require larger calibre which means slower ROF but it will come with longer range which will push the engagement envelope further out. This should allow for a bigger engagement window and less requirement to "obliterate" the incoming missile.

IMO, there are multiple solutions from the one end of ultimate smart guided munition being the anti-missile missile and down the gamut to smart/guided rounds to unguided wall of lead.

I respect the wall of lead argument especially when it comes to obliterating the incoming AShM to reduce the danger of secondary fragments. I have my reservations about the ability of dumb rounds against maneuvering targets.

It all boils down to the pro/con of each solution and the other layers of Fleet AD that support them.
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I will trust the Leonardo and similar companies assessments and conclusions on this once they have tested their theory against supersonic and hypersonic targets for real (as in life fire tests and trials, not war, at a minimum)

I for one think it’s noteworthy that the only two countries in the world who actually have supersonic AShMs and the technical base to develop their own CIWS have both gone with insane RPM designs as their principle gun based CIWS.

Yes, having smart rounds would be useful to push out the engagement range compared to dedicated 30mm, but why not have both? All modern Chinese warships’ main gun have secondary AA functionality. Hell, why not also have a missile based CIWS? Which is precisely what all top end modern Chinese surface warships are doing.
 
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silentlurker

Junior Member
Registered Member
The Oto Melara's muzzle velocity is only 915 m/s, the next wave of hypersonic missiles and glide vehicles all have speeds of at least Mach 5 (1715 m/s) by the most pessimistic analyses.

Intercepting at range isn't happening.
 
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voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
silentlurker said:
The Oto Melara's muzzle velocity is only 915 m/s, the next wave of hypersonic missiles and glide vehicles all have speeds of at least Mach 5 (1715 m/s) by the most pessimistic analyses.

Intercepting at range isn't happening.
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How about using a railgun?

I am guessing that somehwere around 2025 railguns could enter service.
Now if they are suitable as CIWS against hypersonic missiles is another question (turning speed, elevation speed, weight, time to fire a shot, time for targeting, accuracy etc)
 
plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
silentlurker said:
The Oto Melara's muzzle velocity is only 915 m/s, the next wave of hypersonic missiles and glide vehicles all have speeds of at least Mach 5 (1715 m/s) by the most pessimistic analyses.

Intercepting at range isn't happening.
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In theory you still can engage at range with a slower projectile if you can detect the incoming hypersonic far away enough and have OTH low level detection capabilities.

The issue with western smart munitions thinking is that they are thinking it’s a this or that choice between large cal smart munitions and high RoF close in guns. Worse, a lot of the appeal of smart munitions is that they are thinking of using them as a replacement for missile based CIWS or even medium ranged SAMs as a penny saving strategy.

What the Russians and Chinese especially seem to have concluded from live fire tests against supersonic and maybe even hypersonic targets is that against them, there is no such thing as overkill and they try to throw everything, including the kitchen sink at them.
 
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