PLA AEW&C, SIGINT, EW and MPA thread


crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
Totoro said:
I am not saying benefits of kj2000 array don't outweigh the costs, maybe they do. I was just observing the difference in logic between various awacs systems. I guess it will be interesting to see what logic will next gen US awacs use, when it gets a true ESA array.

also, a plane will always have to make some turns, it can't afford to position itself so target is in radar's sweet spot and just keep going on like that. There's a reason why awacs planes usually fly in 8 shaped paths. So with lack of 360 coverage one might have good coverage 95% of the time but there's always that bit while turning compromises the coverage. Granted, in practical real world terms it's very hard to take significant advantage of that but theoretically it's still possible. :D

Notice that if you put the array in a balance beam you get the longest length. Length of the array is important because the more surface area an array has the longer the potential detection range. The bad part of it is that the array can be dangerous against side winds and crosswinds. I'm not really surprised that the Y-8 Balance beam plane crashed.

On some of the US planes, you have the arrays back to back going across the length of the dish. That's two arrays, mind you, and they offer the largest reception area possible as you can see. The thing is, you need to mechanically rotate the arrays. Those movements and shifts in positions create shifts in gravity in the plane that affects the plane's stability.

Without any movement and the advantage of using an aerodynamic dish, the triangle arranged phase arrays as you can see might offer the best compromise between array size and flight stability.
 

tphuang

Brigadier
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Registered Member
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ISLAMABAD: A high powered Chinese Defence delegation is due to arrive here shortly for a test and trial of their Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS).

The team is arriving just moths after Pakistan announced it was going ahead with the purchase of the Swedish Early Warning System (ERIEYE).

The Chinese system is said to be cost-effective and state of the art which is designed for both Airborne Early Warning (AEW) and Airborne Command and Control (AC&C) missions.

Pakistan has been in need of such a system for continuous surveillance of border and sea lanes of communication.

The system from China represents the current best choice of AWACS with powerful mission capability and availability in a cost effective package.
lol, we saw Y-8 AEW coming out a while back and was speculating who it's offered to. Let's see how Pakistan rates this system. Personally, it is a little bit puzzling that China still thinks Pakistan would purchase its AEW after already purchased Erieye.
 

Totoro

Captain
VIP Professional
Lets talk about the future. How many awacs systems would china need? I'd think that depends on the threat and since it's always best to plan for the worst, that threat would be massive US strikes on china's soil (that's just for illustration of level of threat, lets not discuss it further)

4 planes seem to be a number that allows to have one plane on station at any time, for as long as it takes. 3 would also do it for a week or two, but sooner or later there'd have to be some big maintenance work done.

Knowing range needs to be at least till the horizon, some 430 km at 10 km altitude and knowing how many points around china need to have awacs coverage (near korea, near afghanistan, near india, vietnam, taiwan, across japan etc) one could calculate that for worst scenario (where threats come from all those direction at the same time - granted, unrealistic but theoretically possible) china would need 12 planes on station at any given time. Depending on effectiveness of sharing of resources between various areas, thats 36-48 awacs system in total. Possible (desirable) attrition reserve not counted.

I hope china will, in some 10 year time period, be able to produce and field (and maintain) such a fleet. Of course, real world teaches us that budget constraints usually half any real but i guess even as few as 18 systems would not be that bad - though it might prove to be too much for a scenario where taiwan is invaded, where there's war between koreas, where US is threatening from afghanistan and from over india/vietnam while placing carriers more or less across whole coast.

I do hope in that long term china will field a mix of airliner converted awacs for max flight endurance with transport based awacs fleet which could operate from unprepared and unpaved runways.

If true that 4 kj2000 have entered service then there should be little to prevent from further units entering service during the coming years. Basically, anything less than another 4 (of any kind, doesnt have to be kj2000) in the next 365 days could signal total numbers meant to be fielded are gonna be closer to russia's awacs fleet than to one of US of A.
 

kursed

New Member
A Pakistani member on KeyPublishing is claiming that today morning at 6am PST he saw an AWACS plane with the radome painted in white on Chaklala Airbase. And I just read the whole thread and as tpuhang has already pointed it out it might be the Y-8 derivative with a KJ-2000 styled radar on top.
 
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kooe

Banned Idiot
the news i heard this morning..... china is promotin AWACS to pakistan...
Islamabad, Jul 29 (ANI): A Chinese defence delegation will soon visit Pakistan to showcase their country's Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) following Islamabad's recent announcement to purchase a similar system from Swedish arms major Saab AB.

Pakistan recently concluded a 1.14 billion dollar deal with Swedish aerospace and defence company Saab AB for the AWACS in a bid to enhance its air space security and counter Indian's Phalcons airborne warning system, reports the Daily Times.

Pakistan currently relies on ground based radars for its security and security officials had said the country needed a surveillance device to ensure the security of its borders and underwater communication system.

They said AWACS were the most cost effective and powerful system for early warning, and command and control missions and together with the existing ground-based RADARS, will provide a more detailed picture, enabling Pakistan to detect different threats to the country.

The SAAB-Ericsson Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) deal with Pakistan was first announced in October 2005, and includes a Saab 2000 turboprop jet equipped with airborne radars from Ericsson Microwave Systems.

Pakistan had made the choice between Saab's Erieye and Boeing's 737 AEWS and settled for the former because of the latter's prohibitive cost. (ANI)

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maglomanic

Junior Member
I am just not sure what is Pakistan trying to do here. Deal with Ercison is done deal. Why they are bringing in Chinese AWACS late into equation? I don't think Pakistan has that kind of money. Probably China will offer a complete Package including JF-17,J-10 and AWACS. Or maybe the radome AWACS offers something that the blanace beam Erieye lacks. Anyone??
 

duskylim

Junior Member
VIP Professional
Dear Sirs:

If there are no other antennas in the Erieye system then the systems' coverage cannot be 360 degrees. This is because to electronically steer the beam we emit progressively delayed wavefronts from the small antennas along the face of the array.

As the wavefronts add up they form a strong sum signal in the desired direction. Each wave emitted is slightly out of phase with the next - except in the desired direction - hence the name phased array.

As can be seen from geometry, the width of the beam decreases the farther away from perpendicular we steer the beam. The beam width is proportional to the cosine of the steering angle. So at 45 degrees it is equal to 0.707... at 60 degrees 0.500 and at 90 degrees it is 0.

Incidentally the best introduction I have read into this techonology is from the September 1981 issue of Scientific American - it was written by the Raytheon engineers who designed Cobra Judy and Cobra Dane.

Best Regards,

Dusky Lim
 

maglomanic

Junior Member
Allegedly this is the photo of Chinese AWACS from Chaklala airbase.

It was posted by Usman Shabir on PakDef.info.Credits to him.
 
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