Next generation Japanese destroyers, what it means for PLAN

China got the money China got the manpower all China need to do is work hard very hard, I mean overtime hard to catch up with western technology, main problem is EU embargo, its has made Chinese military acheivemnts delayed but the end will still be the same, they will reach thier goal but will just that little bit longer.

China needs to move fast on ASW warfare and and make sonars of the highest qaulity, Japanese-US co-operation means the best in cutting edge technology this is bad for China.

Re: Next generation Japanese destroyers

Finn McCool said:

Sea Dog, the same goes for any Japanese DD(X) design. A large part of any such ship would be of American origin and the project would probably have a lot of American help and American weapons, sensors and other technologies. With essentially two camps of weapons in the worlds, ones with US origins and influences and ones with Russia influences and origins, foreign technology is to be expected for most countries. However, as China and India rise to superpower status they'll carve out their own weapopns niche.

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I'm inclined to think the Europeans still have indigenous capability. i.e. MBDA, SNECMA, Dassault, Saab, BAE Systems, Finmeccanica, Iveco/Oto Melara, Krauss-Maffei Wegmann, Rheinmetall, GIAT, etc. The Leopard MBT still out-sells the M1 on world market, though I won't blame the US for any failures in this due to Germany's superior reputation in tank building -- heck, even Poland buys Leopard 2A4's.

this was posted a while back on a Chinese forum. Normally, I wouldn't bother with this, but several items have already turned out to be true.

1大连 115舾装加海试 116下水并舾装 老瓦开始装修配动力
2江南 052D（目标舰）四艘依次分段铺龙骨，看全貌需明年。已知讯息为升级版相控阵，吨位
与伯克相若，此级舰至少建8艘，配套航母工程。此外长兴岛为核潜而建的室内船坞也稳步推进中。
3黄埔、沪东各两艘054A建造中，进度够快今年可下水，另沪东还建071,并计划开辟目标舰第2条生产线。054A不会再有HHQ-7了，配某新型相控阵，HQ-16与某型反潜导弹共架于32单元VLS，战力不弱于春雨，计划建造数量不少于20艘。
4还有就是航母了，去年8月30日02工程正式启动，目前设计阶段已基本结束，说白点05年开始进入“实质”阶段了，用不了一两年大家就能在网上看见“干货”了，舰载机已确定，Y预警就等上老瓦练一练了。
5潜艇历来就是PLA的重点，这里不多说了。渤海造的太慢，态度还不爽，有点中国电信的嘴脸，迫使上海造核潜成为可能以打破垄断。今年武昌、江南的鱼只能比你想象的多，大家拭目以待吧

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basically stating that
1. Dalian -115 already started sea test, 116 is getting put in water to start fitting equipments, Varyag has started installing propulsion
2. JN - 052D is up to start out with a batch of 4, might not appear until next year, raised AESA radar and displacement, in the AB displacement class, will build at least 8 to accompany carrier project, also ChangXingDao's nuclear power indoor sea base also proceeding in construction.
3. HP and HD producing 2 054As each . HD also building 071 LPD, maybe opening a second production line of 071. 054A no longer using HHQ-7, using some AESA radar, hq-16 and Anti-submarine rocket on 32-cell VLS, planned production number - not less than 20
4. AC - claims that the planning/designing finished in august30th of 2005, already entered the production stage, may start seeing some photos in a couple of years. naval fighter determined, so is shipborne AEW
5. SSK - Bohai (it's near north sea fleet) produces too slowly, many ssk produced by JN and Wuchang (based in Wuhan) shipyards.

I remember that's last year's rumor. Some of the stuff was questioned at that time, e.g. JN's new shipyard is not ready yet ,how can it build 052D?

But I do like to read these rumors though. I am not so serious about reliability stuff, because things about china's military, there's no authoritive info, it's all up to yourself to make the judgement.

I think I'll take a "I'll believe it when I see it" stance on this one.

Based on recent PLAN ship construction record, I find it unlikely that they'd have found both frigate and destroyer platforms that they're happy with for mass production at same time.

adeptitus said:

I think I'll take a "I'll believe it when I see it" stance on this one.

Based on recent PLAN ship construction record, I find it unlikely that they'd have found both frigate and destroyer platforms that they're happy with for mass production at same time.

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that's the thing, point 1 and first part of point 3 are already shown to be true. This was said at a time when people didn't even know for sure that 054A was under construction. But we now have solid evidence that there are 2 054A in HP and possibly PD and a 071 in PD. I'm pretty sure 054A will be mass produced. If you look at Jiangwei. They started with 4 Jiangwei 1 and mass produced Jiangwei II. Now, they are building 4 054A at once, it's a good sign the same thing will repeat.

I trust most of the projects are undergoing design or contruction, but I won't bet on any mass production until I see them like Type22. If you check their current 053 fleet, it's not that urgent.

Also, 054 was first rumored at the same time as 052B/C (Nobody, including me, believed it though) and it was rumored to be mass produced with HQ16. Have a look at what happened to 525 and 526.

zyun8288 said:

I trust most of the projects are undergoing design or contruction, but I won't bet on any mass production until I see them like Type22. If you check their current 053 fleet, it's not that urgent.

Also, 054 was first rumored at the same time as 052B/C (Nobody, including me, believed it though) and it was rumored to be mass produced with HQ16. Have a look at what happened to 525 and 526.

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they have a lot, I mean a lot of old Jianghu that need to be replaced. If they are producing 4 054As in the space of a year, that's a pretty good sign, I would think.

Personally, I still don't think 054A is a good one to be mass produced. It's too big and too expensive to be a coastal defense ship, yet it's still bit small to go highseas for long duration missions accompanying a large combat group of ships.

If the rumored 1800 ton advanced light frigate project does materialise, combined with Type 22, coastal defense task will be handled nicely and economically and 054's role will be awakard.

That's why I am only interested in the general purpose VLS system. :rofl:

It's true sooner or later, china will start to mass produce a version of 052 and 054, but will it be 052D and 054A? I just have feeling there will be a 054B soon.:rofl: