Next Generation DDG and FFG thread (after 055, 052D, 054B)

[tamsen_ikard]

Because ship-based SAMs like the HHQ-9 have a maximum range of 300km.

Opposing aircraft can detect ships at 400km+ and have antiship missiles launched at even greater distances.

If Chinese fighters stay within ship-based SAM coverage, sure, the fighters can be relatively safe. But the ships below will face multiple waves of incoming antiship missiles, and eventually there won't be any ships left. Then those fighters fall into in the sea because there isn't anywhere to land.

Chinese fighters have no choice but to leave the envelope of ship-based SAMs.

First of all, ships in any large scale fleet are well dispersed in a defensive layered formation. Thus the distance between the carrier at the center and destroyer on the perimeter could be more than 100 KM.

Which means for enemy planes to attack the carrier, they have to come much closer than 300 KM from the nearest destroyer.

Moreover, HQ-9 is not the be all end all of ship based air defense. China recently unveiled hypersonic DF-1000 which can target planes from 3000 KM away. China is also developing 1000+ KM SAMs. These will likely be navalized and put into destroyer once they are mature.

Ships can always bring bigger missiles and take out targets from a longer range. The limitation is never the size or range of the missile but the ability find and track targets with accuracy.


This is where China's advanced AWACS radars come in with their ability to track targets all the way to 600+ KM.

Moreover your 6 squadron of around 120 planes can only carry maybe 250 anti-ship missiles, This is easy task for 20+20 destroyers and frigates to defend with their SAMs.

Once these planes go back to carriers to rearm and refuel, Chinese fleet can track them and launch their hypersonic missile attacks on those carriers. So, its not true that Chinese fleets will keep defending wave after wave of enemy attacks without firing back.

In the simplest possible terms: ships are slow, planes are fast, and the ocean is big

Missiles are even faster. Planes can only fly for couple of hours and then must return back to their carriers, which is slow, easy to track and easily sunk with hypersonic missiles.

 

[Gloire_bb]

Ugh, flat Earth club.

 

[Wrought]

Missiles are even faster. Planes can only fly for couple of hours and then must return back to their carriers, which is slow, easy to track and easily sunk with hypersonic missiles.

No they aren't, because they are stuck on your slow ships. Out of range of planes which can quite literally run rings around them.

You are claiming that an archer on foot can chase down a horse archer because arrows are faster than horses. Not how it works.

 

[kwaigonegin]

First of all, ships in any large scale fleet are well dispersed in a defensive layered formation. Thus the distance between the carrier at the center and destroyer on the perimeter could be more than 100 KM.

Which means for enemy planes to attack the carrier, they have to come much closer than 300 KM from the nearest destroyer.

Moreover, HQ-9 is not the be all end all of ship based air defense. China recently unveiled hypersonic DF-1000 which can target planes from 3000 KM away. China is also developing 1000+ KM SAMs. These will likely be navalized and put into destroyer once they are mature.

Can you pls stop with the hyperbole?
There is no 1000+ km SAM in the foreseeable future than can prosecute fighter size aircrafts nor can the hypothetical df1000 hit an aircraft from 3000km away unless it's a C5B sitting on an open tarmac.

 

[kafkahibino]

sam and air to air missile will always be shorter range than anti surface/ship missiles , ship based anti surface/ship missiles will always be longer range than air launched ones , pla ddg with the yj-17 and yj-20 can attack usn csg while being out of the superhornet/f-35c equipped with lrasm range , the carrier borne j-35 with pl-15s and pl-17s can destroy these jets when they approach the chinese csg to launch the lrasm

 

[AndrewS]

First of all, ships in any large scale fleet are well dispersed in a defensive layered formation. Thus the distance between the carrier at the center and destroyer on the perimeter could be more than 100 KM.

Which means for enemy planes to attack the carrier, they have to come much closer than 300 KM from the nearest destroyer.

Given the imbalance in airpower, they can pick off the layers systematically over multiple attacks.

Moreover, HQ-9 is not the be all end all of ship based air defense. China recently unveiled hypersonic DF-1000 which can target planes from 3000 KM away. China is also developing 1000+ KM SAMs. These will likely be navalized and put into destroyer once they are mature.

Ships can always bring bigger missiles and take out targets from a longer range. The limitation is never the size or range of the missile but the ability find and track targets with accuracy.

This is where China's advanced AWACS radars come in with their ability to track targets all the way to 600+ KM.

Tracking a broadband-stealthy B-21 or RQ-180 (or their Chinese equivalents) is likely not possible even at a range of 100km, never mind 600km. In comparison, an AWACs has to continually transmit and reveal its location. Hence the proposal to use B-21 to carry AAMs, which would be able to target opposing AWACs and other non-stealthy aircraft.

I would say 1000km and 3000km SAMs are too speculative.
Plus the solution for an AWACs would be to shut down its radar temporarily, and exit the target area.
Again, the problem is tracking moving targets at long range, not the range of the weapons themselves.

Moreover your 6 squadron of around 120 planes can only carry maybe 250 anti-ship missiles, This is easy task for 20+20 destroyers and frigates to defend with their SAMs.

Once these planes go back to carriers to rearm and refuel, Chinese fleet can track them and launch their hypersonic missile attacks on those carriers. So, its not true that Chinese fleets will keep defending wave after wave of enemy attacks without firing back.

I think a single fleet of 20 destroyers plus 20 frigates is simply unrealistic.

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How can they track the aircraft returning to US carriers? Remember that Chinese aircraft have already been wiped out, and you would expect at least a few US aircraft to be held in reserve or as CAP.

Missiles are even faster. Planes can only fly for couple of hours and then must return back to their carriers, which is slow, easy to track and easily sunk with hypersonic missiles.

Again, the problem is tracking opposing ships at long-range, not the range of the missiles themselves.

 

[banjex]

Ok can we stop derailing the thread