New Type98/99 MBT thread

[GeForce]

The export T-72 tanks had worse armor than the T-72A from 1979.

Well, there was some lag between introducing a new model for Soviet army and export permit.
T-72A (172M-1) - was adopted into service in 1979
T-72M (172M-E3), Warsaw pact model with some T-72A's features, but old armor - export permit in 1980
T-72M1 (172M-E5), basically a Warsaw pact T-72A - export permit in 1983

+worse ammunition, usually

Spoiler: P.S.

P.S. My previous post was hidden for some reason. Can someone ask a moderator why?

 

[keldon]

I think what he meant was, back in the 1980s, they chose the 125mm due to future potential to surpass NATO 120mm in firepower.
But that seems limited due to the ammo carousel not being able to take longer projectiles.

Yes, the comment was refering to the 80s. I think the propellant was already caught up in 1989, since the PTZ-89 was packing a very powerful 120mm gun+ammo.

While technically the autoloader carousel would limit the potential length of the sabot, but realistically speaking i think this is a non-issue, simply due to the split nature of the 125mm shell and being stacked compactly in the carousel. For it to be a real issue the penetrator has to be like what? 1m long? At that point all tanks need to be redesigned to feature an autoloader, especially the manual loaded NATO tanks.

 

[GeForce]

since the PTZ-89 was packing a very powerful 120mm gun+ammo

While technically the autoloader carousel would limit the potential length of the sabot

I think there were two problems here.
Firstly, it is said that PTZ89's gun had like 100MPa less pressure than Rh-120 (I don't remember the source of this claim tho). Isn't it an offshoot of the WZ122's gun program? So, gun itself was 10-15 years old already and still didn't reach planned performance.
Secondly, the gun never got its supposed conveyor-type autoloader.

So, PLA made a technological leap with already proven 125mm gun+carousel autoloader, suitable both for upgrading an old Type 80 platform (Type 85-IIAP/ZTZ-96) and a new platform (WZ123/ZTZ-99).

 

[keldon]

I think there were two problems here.
Firstly, it is said that PTZ89's gun had like 100MPa less pressure than Rh-120 (I don't remember the source of this claim tho). Isn't it an offshoot of the WZ122's gun program? So, gun itself was 10-15 years old already and still didn't reach planned performance.
Secondly, the gun never got its supposed conveyor-type autoloader.

So, PLA made a technological leap with already proven 125mm gun+carousel autoloader, suitable both for upgrading an old Type 80 platform (Type 85-IIAP/ZTZ-96) and a new platform (WZ123/ZTZ-99).

From what i read, the 120mm gun had a "nomral" and "overheat" performance, it matched the chamber pressure of Rh-120 in the later setting. Source was on fyjs before that forum died.

https://imgur.com/epiwRFc

The gun itself started from the old WZ122 project, but later incorporated tech from Rheinmetall. I also saw the autoloader, which is actually supposed to be a magazin style bustle loader, there are black-white pics of it floating around. At least the prototype vehicles were equipped with it.

From the 4 parter vid it is said that 3 proposals for a gen 3 tank were made. One of them is a Leo 2 "copy" that uses the 120mm gun from PTZ-89. However ultimately the 125mm proposal won, whether the upgradability for older tanks played a larger role, i doubt it.

 

[GeForce]

I also saw the autoloader, which is actually supposed to be a magazin style bustle loader

That one?

Looks like a conveyor

incorporated tech from Rheinmetall

Dunno, it looks like a big D10-T to me

 

[keldon]

That one?

Looks like a conveyor

Dunno, it looks like a big D10-T to me

Not that one, it's an actual physically made device, whter it's a mockup or actual loader remains unknown, however the quality of the pic was terrible.
Aside from that what is a conveyor belt supposed to mean in the sense of bustle autoloader? Both the Japanese type-90 and the Leclerc have their autoloader in such a configuration as show in your pic.

From what i gathered, it was primarily industrial process China learned from Rheinmetall. It was also talked in the 4 parter vid from uncle Yang.

 

[GeForce]

it's an actual physically made device

So, could be that one:

Anyway, it probably wasn't ready, like the whole WZ1224

 

[keldon]

So, could be that one:

Anyway, it probably wasn't ready, like the whole WZ1224

Yes, that one. I believe it was deemed to complicated and costly for a vehicle that is essentially a throwaway ambush unit against the soviet steel tide.

 

[Scout]

While technically the autoloader carousel would limit the potential length of the sabot, but realistically speaking i think this is a non-issue, simply due to the split nature of the 125mm shell and being stacked compactly in the carousel. For it to be a real issue the penetrator has to be like what? 1m long? At that point all tanks need to be redesigned to feature an autoloader, especially the manual loaded NATO tanks.

For the new Russian APFSDS, Svinets-1 and Svinets-2 with L=740mm penetrator length, need to be redesigned the carousel autoloader. All T-90A, T-90M, T-80BVM and T-72B3 tanks are already with the new autoloaders, which can carry and load the new long APFSDS. For the other Russian tanks it's impossible.

P.S. Hope I understand correct your question.

 

[Scout]

From what i read, the 120mm gun had a "nomral" and "overheat" performance, it matched the chamber pressure of Rh-120 in the later setting. Source was on fyjs before that forum died.

https://imgur.com/epiwRFc

The gun itself started from the old WZ122 project, but later incorporated tech from Rheinmetall. I also saw the autoloader, which is actually supposed to be a magazin style bustle loader, there are black-white pics of it floating around. At least the prototype vehicles were equipped with it.

From the 4 parter vid it is said that 3 proposals for a gen 3 tank were made. One of them is a Leo 2 "copy" that uses the 120mm gun from PTZ-89. However ultimately the 125mm proposal won, whether the upgradability for older tanks played a larger role, i doubt it.

What is in this table? Two 120mm gun? Both are chinese made? Or one is the German man Rh-120 and another is the Chinese?