New Type98/99 MBT thread


ChinaWall65

Banned Idiot
Gollevainen said:
no they doesen't. All chinese tanks which has an autoloader has the russian type carusel autoloader placed in the turret root.



That's just living in denyal. T-72 and Type 99 does share very similar hull, and it's said in various sources that the chinese tank hull is derivated from the russian tank. It's 1 meter longer, but that doesen't mean anyhting. It's propaply due the fact that the engine is placed differently, thus requiring longer hull. But if you look the most important features, like the suspension and wheels, you cannot avoid the fact that the two tanks share a relationship. Stating what you said about leopards type of armour and so on is just childish.

What is it with you and others? Some inferior complex? Overboosted nationlaistic pride thing? Chinese tanks are not 100% indegenious, not single one of them entering serial production. All first generation tanks are based in T-54 and the seccond generation incorporates T-72 weapon system and layout. The third generation was the first effort to get some indegenious tank, tough still fielding the T-72s concept. The first version, which had an indegenious hull, failed (type 90). But the seccond (Type 98) returned to just derivating the russian hull adding some lenght and other improvements. Is it direct copy of T-72? No, but it's still derivated from it. Why it is so hard to you to get it?
I never said Chinese tanks are 100% indigenous, and non of the modern tanks today are 100% indigenous. Even the T-72 is based off of early Soviet Tanks, which are based off of WWII tanks, which are based off of WWI tanks.
Comparing the Leopard's style armour and all other examples of similarities between modern tanks from my previous are legitimate analogies that fits under your logic, because what you are saying is that because there are few features on the Type 99's hull that are similar to the T-72's hull, Type 99 could not possibly be an indigenous design, but really a derivative of the T-72. This isn't logical, you are comparing few aspects of the Type 99 to the T-72, however you are concluding the entire tank, Type 99, as a derivative of the entire tank, T-72. You just can't do that, its like surveying Moms Against Drunk Driving about "drinking and drive" to represent the opinion of the entire nation. Having the similarity based on the looks of Type 99 and T-72 that you concluded doesn't mean the entire design of Type 99 is not indigenous...lastly, do you realize that over 96% percent of Human DNA and Chimpanzees DNA are similar; but the difference between Humans and Chimpanzees is that Humans are hundreds of times more advanced than Chimpanzees...I'm not advocating for China, if you checked my profile, you will see that i'm in North Carolina; i'm simply pointing out your flawed logic saying that Type 99 isn't indigeous because certain parts of its hull looks like certain parts of T-72's hull.
 

jackbh

Junior Member
But the seccond (Type 98) returned to just derivating the russian hull adding some lenght and other improvements. Is it direct copy of T-72? No, but it's still derivated from it.
To say something like this is to over simplify things. Unless you are an engineer doing actual work on the Type 98, you won't know what exactly the design is. Just by looking at the physical difference or similarity is just not very accurate.
Sure, I agree that there are probably some design cues on the Type 98 that are from T-72, but there are probably more things that are very different than the T-72. Looks can really be decieving. Thing could be more complex than they look.
 

Gollevainen

Colonel
VIP Professional
Registered Member
To say something like this is to over simplify things. Unless you are an engineer doing actual work on the Type 98, you won't know what exactly the design is. Just by looking at the physical difference or similarity is just not very accurate.
Sure, I agree that there are probably some design cues on the Type 98 that are from T-72, but there are probably more things that are very different than the T-72. Looks can really be decieving. Thing could be more complex than they look.
I never said it's simply just down to the looks. And i think we all agree that the Tank is not direct copy of anything, just continious development of existing tanks having imput from T-72. The physical evidence is undenyable. It may sound simplify but it realy isen't. The biggest definition features of any tank is in it's automotive parts, turret and the gun. And from Type 98 we can clearly see the automotive parts and state their undenyable similarityes to T-72. It's simple and it's true. The engine as we known is quite differnece than the one in T-72. And so is the turret, but the gun and the autoloader are based to the ones in russian tanks. We have seen pictures of it (posted in threads that were closed becouse of flaming battles...) and I've been inside T-72 and I even first tough those pics were taken inside of T-72 so...

is the T-72 style autoloader confirmed on ZTZ-99? I don't think a picture has been released
Well like i said we have seen the pics of the gun, and the turret isen't big enough to field Bustle autoloader so it have to be the carusel type.

do you realize that over 96% percent of Human DNA and Chimpanzees DNA are similar; but the difference between Humans and Chimpanzees is that Humans are hundreds of times more advanced than Chimpanzees...
You hit the nail there...Thats what i have said all the time, the 'chimp' and 'humans' are basicly the same...only when other 'humans' looks the thing from behind 'human' eyeclasses, they tend to see only the differences, not the similarityes....but when a Pig looks both of them, he sees how stricingly similar they are...guess im the piggy...and no one have ever denied that the 'human' is equally dum as the 'chimp';) :p
 

ChinaWall65

Banned Idiot
Gollevainen said:
Well like i said we have seen the pics of the gun, and the turret isen't big enough to field Bustle autoloader so it have to be the carusel type.
no, you saw pics of parts of the gun and very limited parts of the inside of the turret...PLA wouldn't release photos as sensitive like the entire inside of the turret, or majority of the inside...so your statement about the turret isn't big enough is just pure speculation.

Gollevainen said:
the 'chimp' and 'humans' are basicly the same...
think about what you are saying...just because human's DNA and chimp's DNA are the same doesn't mean humans and chimps are the same
 

Gollevainen

Colonel
VIP Professional
Registered Member
no, you saw pics of parts of the gun and very limited parts of the inside of the turret...PLA wouldn't release photos as sensitive like the entire inside of the turret, or majority of the inside...so your statement about the turret isn't big enough is just pure speculation.
I have seen pics of the gun, and the turret is just too small its not a speculation, its plain physical fact...no way there can be any other means of autoloader, than caruzel one....again you just want to see the differences, and live in denial over the crucial similarityes.

think about what you are saying...just because human's DNA and chimp's DNA are the same doesn't mean humans and chimps are the same
chimp and humans are basicly same...humans tend to be bit clewer and have managed to greate huge illusion that sometimes fools somebody to think humans are somewhat special...but enough whit this topic, you clearly must have noticed my story as metaphorical
 

Fabrice

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Hello

My first post on this forum I apologize for my English. I have new data on ZTZ-96LO experimental type main battle tank of people’s liberation army of 2005. A low observable main battle tanks has sloping sides and rubber skirts to evade radar and laser.
 

ChinaWall65

Banned Idiot
Gollevainen said:
I have seen pics of the gun, and the turret is just too small its not a speculation, its plain physical fact...no way there can be any other means of autoloader, than caruzel one....again you just want to see the differences, and live in denial over the crucial similarityes.
do you have any evidence to back up your claim, like blueprints of the turret, official reports, etc? if not, then you can't simply make an absolute statement that it is impossible to fit a bustle mounted autoloader...i don't think you design tank turrets or autoloaders, so if i were you, i wouldn't make any assumptions. making conclusions based on pictures of turret taken by photographers about that the turret is not big enough is speculation, its not fact yet unless you have some evidence you are not sharing; you can look up the definition of speculation on Black's Law dictionary, if you still won't change your mind...

stop saying i'm in denial, first of all, i'm not and second of all, how is it related to the dicussion of type 99? you have misunderstood my point...there are few features on the type 99 that is similar to the t-72, but that doesn't make the entire design of type 99 not indigenous. like i said before, abram's gun and leopard's gun are copies of each other, but that doesn't mean abram isn't an indigenous design...this is the same thing with type 99 and t-72, there hull looks similar; other than the fact that type 99's hull is one meter's longer and that everything INSIDE the hull is obviously different from the t-72's...

Gollevainen said:
chimp and humans are basicly same...
you are right, i don't need to say anything more to demonstrate the flaws in your thinking.
 
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planeman

Senior Member
VIP Professional
Fabrice said:
Hello

My first post on this forum I apologize for my English. I have new data on ZTZ-96LO experimental type main battle tank of people’s liberation army of 2005. A low observable main battle tanks has sloping sides and rubber skirts to evade radar and laser.
Looks like it applies similar principles to the AMX-30 stealth tank:

I can see why it might look like a CGI even if it's real. Do you have the picture in a better resolution?
 

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