Movies in General

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
I saw the new Top Gun film with my Dad this evening. Dad introduced me to the first film as a child and it awakened my love for combat aircraft, a fascination that expanded and deepened over the years to encompass military equipment of all kinds, the nuclear security architecture and other aspects of the Cold War, and which has brought me by various twists and turns to my contemporary interest in China's rise, the development of its MIC and the geopolitical consequences thereof. Without Top Gun, I would probably not be posting here today. As such, I clearly had to see the sequel.

We can all nitpick the technical and tactical absurdities of the film, but I want to speak to a couple aspects that have deeper thematic resonance. I was surprised and impressed that the film identified the hostile Su-57 Felon aircraft (not named as such, but that is clearly what it is) as being superior to the Super Hornet. This positioning of the Super Hornet as the "weaker" aircraft served a clear dramatic purpose but is nonetheless a rare and notable concession from Hollywood. Moreover, this concession is actually true to real life, where the Su-57 could indeed fly circles around Super Hornet. One can debate its effectiveness as a weapons system, but nobody seriously questions the aerodynamic prowess of the Su-57 Felon, and this aspect is what the Top Gun film was interested in.

I was also pleasantly surprised that the adversary nation in the film remained unidentified. This is reminiscent of the first film, but then we live in a very different world today. Whereas Top Gun was one of the leading films of a new "pro-military" era emerging from a decade or more of humility in the wake of Vietnam, Top Gun Maverick releases in a world where American nationalism and militarism has reached new heights, where soldiers are reflexively "thanked for their service" and Washington routinely wages wars all around the world with the support or at least quiescence of the civilian population. The restraint of Top Gun Maverick in this respect is almost admirable. The nuclear reactor plot device and presence of the old F-14 strongly suggests we are looking at a reimagined Iran, but the terrain does not support that, nor does the presence of the Su-57 Felon. A plausibly deniable Iran, then.

I agree that the film lacks the bright optimism of the original. I would put this down more to trends in filmmaking that to trends in a broader national consciousness, though of course they are related to some extent. I was impressed by the presence of Val Kilmer, who has lost the use of his voice in real life. I also thought the Goose/Rooster subplot was quite well done. Jennifer Connolly as "Tom Cruise's woman" didn't work quite so well. The basic ingredients were there for a subplot exploring notions of responsibility, change, commitment, but really the film's attentions were elsewhere. I liked the scene where Tom Cruise was thrown out of the bar and found himself as an old man looking in at the young pilots enjoying themselves as he once did, though it was bit overplayed. This is not exactly a subtle film.

Oddly enough I was actually slightly disappointed by the combat/flight scenes. There may have been real aircraft on film with cameras inside real cockpits, but something about the editing didn't sit quite right for me. I know the original film had lots of fast cuts too, but here it didn't seem like the film gave the aircraft time to breathe on screen, nor the ability to appreciate spatial relationships.

Overall I was satisfied with the film. It will certainly not have the immense impact of the first either for me or the broader culture, but it was well made and reasonably well conceived and I am glad to have seen it.
Good points, let’s add a few more. First “Topgun” was relocated to Nevada in 1996. So the beach scenery and sailing trip of the movie is wrong. Maverick should have been hitting Reno NV.
Lockheed Martin wanted it to be F35 based and the studio even looked into it, even negotiations. F35 is a single seater and though Tom Cruise maybe a pilot but he wasn’t going to fly a nearly hundred million dollar fighter on his own. The scenes of “Pilots” in the cockpit are real but all of them in the back seat of a two seater. Farther F35 for this was a no go due to security and basic logistics of shooting. I mean the helmet alone costs as much as a new car. This required some forced facts on the script to shift from F35 to F/A18. Hence the “GPS jamming. In reality post 2018 F35 added laser and jam resistant munitions to F35’s arsenal.
Of course F35 doing the mission probably wouldn’t have worked as Maverick wouldn’t have been needed.
The Sam sites on mountain peaks must be a hell of a trick to load. Would have been more efficient to place the sites at the entrance of the canyon.
The whole thing was forced right out of Ace Combat/Starwars canyon run.
Mavrick really should have been retired of flying a desk in the real navy.
the F14 plays an old trope of it just happens to be flight ready armed and ready to fuel. I mean if the Iranians got SU57 and they were that good then the F14s would be mounted in museums. They wouldn’t be sitting ready to scramble oh and you would you know think they would maybe have guards.
This said the way Tom cruise overrides the wings is accurate.
The Tomahawks were a little fast. Faster than the jets. I mean the jets are super sonic tomahawk is subsonic.
 

Fedupwithlies

Junior Member
Registered Member
Just saw the new Top Gun Today. It was stupid but fun. Felt like they just went all in on the nostalgia factor, nothing interesting or new. For someone who didn't see the old Top Gun until a few days ago in preparation for this, it fell completely flat. But I understand the nostalgia factor, they really banked heavily on it and it showed.

Really made me want to go play Warthunder again though.
 

Sardaukar20

Captain
Registered Member
I have finally watched Top Gun Maverick. Putting aside my gripe on the technical feasibility of the plot, the jingoism, and my own political bias, that was actually a good film to watch. I have not had that kinda fun watching a fighter jet film for a long time.

Compared to South Korea's R2B, and China's Sky Hunter, Top Gun Maverick is a far superior film. Both R2B and Sky Hunter were ironically heavily inspired by the old Top Gun film. And both were too campy, even when compared to the old Top Gun.

Top Gun Maverick shows that despite of a number of Michael Bay disasters, Hollywood is still the undisputed champion at doing fighter jet flicks.

The Chinese are doing better warfilms like the the Eight Hundred, and the Battle of Lake Changjin. But those are still historical war films with regular soldiers. Modern fighter jet films is still unfortunately just not their forte. They still have much to learn there.

It is also very unfortunate that the Chinese censorship is not gonna block on Top Gun Maverick in China. If only because of that "ROC flag on the jacket" nonsense. For me, censorship has its place, but this is overdoing it. That jacket has been edited for the China release, if the government censors don't like it. Apart from that, there is practically no China-bashing in that movie. I just think that Top Gun Maverick might have done moderately well in the Chinese market. It might even boost Chinese public interest in their PLAAF. Just like how it does in other countries.
 
Last edited:

Lethe

Captain
I have finally watched Top Gun Maverick. Putting aside my gripe on the technical feasibility of the plot, the jingoism, and my own political bias, that was actually a good film to watch. I have not had that kinda fun watching a fighter jet film for a long time.

Compared to South Korea's R2B, and China's Sky Hunter, Top Gun Maverick is a far superior film. Both R2B and Sky Hunter were ironically heavily inspired by the old Top Gun film. And both were too campy, even when compared to Top Gun.

The French film Les Chevaliers du Ciel is another that is worth seeing in this genre. Unfortunately, it is a strictly Mirage-based affair with no Rafales in sight. On the plus side, the Mirage is a beautiful aircraft and the film is not addicted to fast-editing or shakycam! Here is a music video using footage from the film:

 

Century2030

Junior Member
Registered Member
It is also very unfortunate that the Chinese censorship is not gonna block on Top Gun Maverick in China. If only because of that "ROC flag on the jacket" nonsense. For me, censorship has its place, but this is overdoing it. That jacket has been edited for the China release, if the government censors don't like it. Apart from that, there is practically no China-bashing in that movie. I just think that Top Gun Maverick might have done moderately well in the Chinese market. It might even boost Chinese public interest in their PLAAF. Just like how it does in other countries.

I'm not a fan of censorship in general. However, in this case it's the right move. Hollywood can't have their cake and eat it too.
Either they respect China's core interests or their movies don't get shown in the country. It's a two faced move to release a global version with the ROC flag and then turn around to edit out the ROC flag to trick Chinese moviegoers into watching the film.

Frankly, I'm actually glad about this because in the past Hollywood would release films that don't showcase China/Chinese people in a positive light and then the China's film bureau would censor the specific scenes and approve the movie for release. Nowadays China's film bureau is standing firm on their principles which is great.
 
Last edited:

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
This raises a question, was the Maverick jacket edited out of the Original Top gun release in China? I mean it was there then to in the plot that Jacket was Mitchell’s father’s Jacket the Japanese and Taiwanese flags were referring to a historic event. The 1963-1964 tour of the Cruiser USS Galveston.

Frankly I think the jacket is overstated as the reason the film ticked the censors. Cruise only wears the jacket for a few minutes in the film the patch only shows twice. The majority of the movie Maverick sports a Sage green CWU-36P. Another Navy flight jacket better suited to warmer weather but not as iconic and lacks the huge patch.
I frankly think that the Censorship was probably more to do with the Plot. This was an American military power film. Captain Pete “Maverick” Mitchell is the US Navy’s Captain America, it is jingoism yes just as Wolf warrior and Battle of lake Changjin is.
The CCP doesn’t want the US military showing on Chinese movie screens as The heroic moral champion Captain America they want it to be seen as Soldier Boy, An arrogant corrupt incompetent.

This I think is as such more like what happened with Spider-Man no way home where the censors flagged the Statue of Liberty. It’s removal pretty much would have demanded a complete rewrite of the movie. Than Dr. Strange 2 with an Epoch times newspaper box. The jacket is just the most obvious red flag.
On top of it that the Chinese government only allows a small number of American movies in and that those movies haven’t brought home the income they hoped has created conditions where studios are waking up to the fact that…. They don’t and shouldn’t pander or Token. I mean Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings was designed for China and we know how that went.
 

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
I mean Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings was designed for China and we know how that went.
Oh please. Of all the Marvel characters to choose from, the studio has to pick the son of Fu Manchu. Changing Shang-chi’s dad in the film doesn’t erase the comic’s fundamental racist story.
Don’t take Chinese as fools
 

KYli

Brigadier
This raises a question, was the Maverick jacket edited out of the Original Top gun release in China? I mean it was there then to in the plot that Jacket was Mitchell’s father’s Jacket the Japanese and Taiwanese flags were referring to a historic event. The 1963-1964 tour of the Cruiser USS Galveston.

Frankly I think the jacket is overstated as the reason the film ticked the censors. Cruise only wears the jacket for a few minutes in the film the patch only shows twice. The majority of the movie Maverick sports a Sage green CWU-36P. Another Navy flight jacket better suited to warmer weather but not as iconic and lacks the huge patch.
I frankly think that the Censorship was probably more to do with the Plot. This was an American military power film. Captain Pete “Maverick” Mitchell is the US Navy’s Captain America, it is jingoism yes just as Wolf warrior and Battle of lake Changjin is.
The CCP doesn’t want the US military showing on Chinese movie screens as The heroic moral champion Captain America they want it to be seen as Soldier Boy, An arrogant corrupt incompetent.

This I think is as such more like what happened with Spider-Man no way home where the censors flagged the Statue of Liberty. It’s removal pretty much would have demanded a complete rewrite of the movie. Than Dr. Strange 2 with an Epoch times newspaper box. The jacket is just the most obvious red flag.
On top of it that the Chinese government only allows a small number of American movies in and that those movies haven’t brought home the income they hoped has created conditions where studios are waking up to the fact that…. They don’t and shouldn’t pander or Token. I mean Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings was designed for China and we know how that went.
Don't talk about things you have no idea about.

Before Disney was making Shang Chi, the Chinese agency already informed Disney it has reservations about Shang Chi. Fumanchu as the symbol of yellow peril and one of the most racist characters can't simply be whitewashed. In addition, Shang Chi himself betrayed his father and his country was viewed with contempt in the Chinese society. More over, most Chinese in China felt that the lead male and female actor and actress were just too ugly. It shows how arrogance the Americans are as they have no idea what Fumanchu means to China and Chinese.

As for Top Gun, your reason that it is banned due to American military power is nonsense. Hacksaw Ridge was an American military power movie got released and had successes. So what you said is just coming from your bias and prejudice.

As for why so many American movies are doing badly lately, it is quite simple. Many of franchise such as Batman, Superman, Star Wars, and Harry Potter were never popular and don't have many fans in China in the first place. You can pretty much write these movies off in Chinese movie market no matter how hard American studios tried.

Movies such as Transformer, Jurassic Park, Fast and Furious, and old Marvel movies were the ones that have done well. The new Jurassic Park movie is also doing well in China at the moment. However, Marvel movies have become too political correctness for Chinese audiences to like. Fast and Furious has fatigue and too exaggerated for Chinese audiences so their further successes are not guarantee.

A few movies such as Warcraft was doing well in China but not in the US as Warcraft has a strong gaming audiences in China. Mulan fall flat due to Chinese audiences feel the movie is so dumb.

So let me sum it up, all movies that are political correctness(Gay, women empowerment, black empowerment), using Chinese characters without understanding Chinese culture and history such as Mulan and Shang Chi, franchise that Chinese audiences have no interest in such as Batman, Superman, Harry Potter, and Star Wars would always under perform.

Great CGI movies and action CGI movies what American studios should be aiming for the Chinese movie market. Hollywood needs to wake up the shifting taste of Chinese audience.
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
Dude, stop trying to pretend you know how the mindset of the Chinese in mainland thinks or their views
This raises a question, was the Maverick jacket edited out of the Original Top gun release in China? I mean it was there then to in the plot that Jacket was Mitchell’s father’s Jacket the Japanese and Taiwanese flags were referring to a historic event. The 1963-1964 tour of the Cruiser USS Galveston.

Frankly I think the jacket is overstated as the reason the film ticked the censors. Cruise only wears the jacket for a few minutes in the film the patch only shows twice. The majority of the movie Maverick sports a Sage green CWU-36P. Another Navy flight jacket better suited to warmer weather but not as iconic and lacks the huge patch.
I frankly think that the Censorship was probably more to do with the Plot. This was an American military power film. Captain Pete “Maverick” Mitchell is the US Navy’s Captain America, it is jingoism yes just as Wolf warrior and Battle of lake Changjin is.
The CCP doesn’t want the US military showing on Chinese movie screens as The heroic moral champion Captain America they want it to be seen as Soldier Boy, An arrogant corrupt incompetent.

This I think is as such more like what happened with Spider-Man no way home where the censors flagged the Statue of Liberty. It’s removal pretty much would have demanded a complete rewrite of the movie. Than Dr. Strange 2 with an Epoch times newspaper box. The jacket is just the most obvious red flag.
On top of it that the Chinese government only allows a small number of American movies in and that those movies haven’t brought home the income they hoped has created conditions where studios are waking up to the fact that…. They don’t and shouldn’t pander or Token. I mean Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings was designed for China and we know how that went.
Dude, you should really stop trying to pretend that you know how the Chinese people in Mainland China thinks or views their motives, political views on America let alone their interest in your American movies.

Unless you have lived there, educated in the country, worked there for a while then perhaps your commentary may have some merits.

I mean, people like myself have been educated in the west (Canada) worked, lived, paid taxes dutifully, and have had the opportunity to live in both Canada and America for over a decade. This experience at least give me some idea, personal insights and understanding how your cultures work or function but there's a limit to what I know and understand about America and Canada's respective cultures and peoples.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Dude, stop trying to pretend you know how the mindset of the Chinese in mainland thinks or their views
Lol.
I find this and @KYli hilarious responses as if anything you are agreeing with me more than against me.
may point was 1) the Jacket wasn’t the Problem the Pro US stance was what would have blocked Topgun Maverick by activating the censors of the CCP.
2) Pandering and Tokenism that Hollywood has tried in the last decade to try and get into the Chinese market has backfired.
I don’t need to have a deep cultural understanding as I am not talking about trying to make a movie for the Chinese market I am talking about the obvious flops. Attempts by Hollywood to sell “China” to China without context. Like when AI write scripts

Seriously this isn’t some deep dive guys.
 
Top