Modern Carrier Battle Group..Strategies and Tactics

mpaduan79

New Member
Re: How Do You Sink A Carrier?

a russian answer
Project 885 Yasen-class multi-purpose attack nuclear-powered submarine is preparing to hit the water at Severodvinsk. It is another new fourth-generation submarine able to replace several classes of submarines used in the Russian Navy. Professionals say this ship will cause a revolution in submarine building. Russia's third-generation Project 971 Akula submarines are already undetectable in ocean depths. The Yasen will outperform even the latest American Sea Wolf in the underwater noise level. In addition, it will be a multi-purpose boat. Thanks to its armaments (several types of cruise missiles and torpedoes), it will be able to carry out diverse missions. It will be able with equal ease to chase enemy "aircraft carriers "and deliver massive missile strikes on coastal targets:coffee:
 

tphuang

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Re: How Do You Sink A Carrier?

This is from somewhere on Chinese forum on a someone that works for 2nd artillery on developing missiles.
何玉彬,男,1964年5月出生,1982年9月入伍,1986年10月入党,博士,现任第二炮兵装备部科研部预研办主任。该同志针对二炮武器装备预研工作领域新、难度大、不定因素多、前瞻性强等特点,以强烈的事业心和责任感,开拓创新,锐意进取,出色完成多项关键技术攻关任务,受到军委、总部和二炮首长的表扬与肯定。先后荣立二等功、一等功各一次,被评为首届二炮 “十大砺剑尖兵”,全军“参谋队伍”重大典型,2005年被中组部中宣部确定为“时代先锋”典型人物。

何玉彬同志着眼二炮装备体系建设和长远发展,着眼军事斗争准备急需,组织完成了多个系列在役在研装备改进项目论证,先后组织召开各类研讨会和评审会百余次,完成了“十五”和“十一五”二炮预研规划的论证,为开展关键技术攻关奠定了重要基础。

围绕二炮武器装备预研,何玉彬同志积极组织协调,整合国家资源,较好地处理了总体与分系统的关系,调动了军方、总体及配套单位的积极性,保证了关键技术按时取得突破和演示验证的顺利开展,为开展型号研制奠定了坚实基础。着眼武器装备建设“短板、瓶颈”问题,完成了某型号系列武器提高精度、快速发射和常规战斗部预研攻关,确保了该型号顺利研制,为实现打击点目标、地下目标和移动目标奠定了重要基础。

何玉彬同志积极探索新时期预研工作的特点规律,构建了机关、研究院、工业部门“三位一体”预研论证机制,完成了预研管理办法等9项法规编制。组织加强了预研项目管理与跟踪研究,初步实现了二炮预研信息和资源共享,提高了综合论证水平。引入竞争机制,开创了军方抓总的预研管理模式,在全军预研史上开创了一年完成技术攻关、10个月完成大型演示验证的先例。
claims to be official, although I have yet to see the original source on this. But it seems to be accepted by several big shrimps that looked at this. The most important part is where they mentionned developing a particular missile with high accuracy to achieve the goal of hitting fix target, underground target and moving target. Suggesting aircraft carrier.
 

akinkhoo

Junior Member
Re: How Do You Sink A Carrier?

would it be possible to make a nuke that generate mostly EMP? deploy them as deep water mine, you could fry the entire fleet sensors and won't have alot of dead people to justify a nuclear war; just alot of dead fish. :nono:
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
Re: How Do You Sink A Carrier?

would it be possible to make a nuke that generate mostly EMP? deploy them as deep water mine, you could fry the entire fleet sensors and won't have alot of dead people to justify a nuclear war; just alot of dead fish. :nono:

EMP works best above water; the higher the altitude the better in fact, so an underwater EMP blast would have very limited effect. Electromagnetic waves don't pass through water very easily hence the difficulty in communicating with subs by radio. Much as we would all like to include some kind of nuclear device in a limited war scenario, the truth is that their use anywhere would be a 'tripwire' event for other nations who will not wait to verify the type of weapon used, most likely they will take it as justification for escalation. This threat is what keeps Nuclear devices of all types and sizes firmly in the arena of 'last resort/armageddon' rather than limited employment in a small scale conflict.
 

akinkhoo

Junior Member
Re: How Do You Sink A Carrier?

ok, i just have another "BRIGHT" idea. how about a cruise missile torpedo?
just fly like a standard missile until the AEGIS response to it, then it slow down and drop into the water, releasing a torpedo hidden within!
:D

just how good are USN anti-torpedo system?
:coffee:
 

Pointblank

Senior Member
Re: How Do You Sink A Carrier?

ok, i just have another "BRIGHT" idea. how about a cruise missile torpedo?
just fly like a standard missile until the AEGIS response to it, then it slow down and drop into the water, releasing a torpedo hidden within!
:D

just how good are USN anti-torpedo system?
:coffee:

Assuming that the torpedo can actually find the target in the first place... otherwise, your going to have to launch the torp very close to the target to ensure a hit (which negates the whole concept, as by then, the missile can be engaged by the ship's CIWS). USN warships are equipped with the AN/SLQ-25 Nixie towed torpedo decoy, which can lure a acoustic homing torpedo away from the ship.
 

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
Re: How Do You Sink A Carrier?

ok, i just have another "BRIGHT" idea. how about a cruise missile torpedo?
just fly like a standard missile until the AEGIS response to it, then it slow down and drop into the water, releasing a torpedo hidden within!
:D

just how good are USN anti-torpedo system?
:coffee:

This is very similar to an idea I had. Basically it is a ballistic missle but instead of MIRVs it carries rocket torpedos like the Shkval. The torpedos are released from the missle at a certain altitude and fall into the sea, then use wake homing to hit a target. A ballistic missle may not be accurate enough to hit a moving ship, but it is accurate enough to dump its cargo somewhere inside the carrier's battle group, very close to the ships, so they will have little time to manuver to escape.
 

IDonT

Senior Member
VIP Professional
Re: How Do You Sink A Carrier?

ok, i just have another "BRIGHT" idea. how about a cruise missile torpedo?
just fly like a standard missile until the AEGIS response to it, then it slow down and drop into the water, releasing a torpedo hidden within!
:D

just how good are USN anti-torpedo system?
:coffee:

This is similar to the Silex missile of the Udaloy destroyers but with an anti-ship torpedo.


Here are the US anti-torpedo systems

Prairie Masker

Masker air forms an air bubble screen around the hull of the ship, reducing transmission of machinery noise to the surrounding waters. Masker creates acoustic impedance mismatch between hull and water, by way of the masker belts located around the hull, putting a blanket of air bubbles between the hull's machinery noise and the water. Masker air disguises low frequency machinery noise that radiates through the hull and cools bleed air for use in engine starting and motoring
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Surface Ship Torpedo Defence
The SSTD program is a defensive system development to counter specific undersea weapon threats to high value surface ships. The system consists of detection, control, and counter weapon subsystems. The counter weapon portion is comprised of a hardkill subsystem for outer layer engagement and a seduction subsystem (softkill) for inner layer defense. SSTD is the first undersea warfare program to use a layered-attrition approach for the defense of surface ships.
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AN/SSQ-95 Active Electronic Buoy
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AN/SLQ-25 NIXIE
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mxiong

Junior Member
China tergets carriers

China targets carriers

China is close to deploying a new conventionally armed strategic missile capable of hitting U.S. aircraft carriers and other warships at sea.

A defense intelligence official said a test of the new weapon is expected, but the timing is not known. A second official also said the Chinese anti-carrier ballistic missile effort, including an anticipated test firing, is being watched closely.

Defense officials said the new missile — a precision guided CSS-5 medium-range missile — is as great or greater a concern for some military planners as China's new anti-satellite weapon, which was first tested successfully against an orbiting Chinese weather satellite in January 2007.

The reason: The backbone of U.S. plans to defend Taiwan from Chinese attack calls for rushing more than half the U.S. aircraft carrier strike groups to the island in the event Beijing follows through on threats to use force to reunite the island with the mainland. Carrier-killing missiles are viewed as one of the most important strategic weapons in the Beijing arsenal because they will be able to block the rapid deployment of U.S. forces to the region considered vital to any Taiwan defense or defense of other allies in the region.

Richard Fisher, a specialist on the Chinese military with the International Assessment and Strategy Center, said the upcoming test of a medium-range anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM) would not be China's first. "It would appear that the [People's Liberation Army] may now be developing three types of ASBMs," he said.

Two of the missiles are based on the CSS-5, also known as the DF-21, and Chinese Internet photos reveal what looks like a maneuvering warhead on the missile similar in design to warheads deployed on the U.S. Pershing-2 medium-range missile. The Pershing-2, dismantled in the 1980s, used a radar-digital map guidance system, and Mr. Fisher thinks the new Chinese anti-ship missile could use a combination of active radar and optical or infrared guidance.

A third anti-ship ballistic missile is expected to be a longer-range variant of the CSS-5 first seen in 2006 that may have multiple warheads.

"It is bad enough that these missiles are being developed and can soon target U.S. naval forces from China," Mr. Fisher said. "But we should also expect that China will eventually place these missiles on ships and submarines and sell them to its rogue allies."

"The Ahmadinejads, Castros and Chavezes of the world would love to have these missiles to hold the U.S. Navy at bay," he said, noting that the U.S. needs a similar capability to target China's growing navy.

U.S. Navy missile defense interceptors also should be upgraded to counter the new Chinese carrier killers, he said.

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mxiong

Junior Member
China Developing Anti-Ship Ballistic Missiles

China Developing Anti-Ship Ballistic Missiles
BY WENDELL MINNICK


TAIPEI, Taiwan — China is developing anti-ship ballistic missiles (ASBMs) that could sink U.S. aircraft carriers responding to a Taiwan Strait crisis, a development that has some defense analysts and former U.S. and Taiwan government officials envisioning scenarios like this:

In March 2012, Washington responds to Chinese threats to invade Taiwan by sending two U.S. aircraft carrier groups toward the Taiwan Strait. Rhetoric out of Beijing and Washington escalates with threats and counterthreats, then open battle.

On the second day, Taiwan and U.S. fighter aircraft engage Chinese aircraft over the strait in what one Taiwanese pilot describes as a hornet’s nest from hell. On the third day, two dozen ASBMs sink the aircraft carriers and several Aegis-equipped destroyers and amphibious warfare ships, killing more than 18,000 U.S. sailors and Marines. In just under an hour, the Chinese inflict four times the losses of the Iraq war.

“Based on Chinese doctrinal and technical publications, among the more interesting programs has been research and development on advanced conventional ballistic missiles with maneuvering re-entry vehicles and terminal guidance,” said Mark Stokes, a former country director for China on the U.S. defense secretary’s staff and a former military attaché in Beijing.

“Successful deployment of conventional medium-range ballistic missiles, such as the DF-21C, as well as extended-range short-range ballistic missiles (SBRM), with terminal guidance packages, could hold at risk U.S. carrier battle groups intervening in a crisis.”

The DF-21C — the road-mobile Dong Feng 21C (East Wind) medium-range ballistic missile with a range of 2,500 kilometers — is the most serious threat to U.S. aircraft carrier groups approaching the Taiwan Strait, said Lin Chong-Pin, former Taiwan deputy minister of defense.

“The DF-21 can be mounted with five kinds of warheads, all designed with U.S. aircraft carrier groups in mind,” Lin said. “Parenthetically, the humiliation felt by the People’s Liberation Army [PLA] after the 1996 Taiwan Strait crisis provided the greatest impetus for Beijing to acquire these capabilities that have been deployed since 2004.”

In March 1996, the United States sent two aircraft carrier groups to the Taiwan Strait area in response to Beijing’s threats. During the crisis, China test-fired several DF-15 (M-9) SRBMs in the waters around Taiwan and vowed to deny access to the area to U.S. warships in a future conflict.

“The PLA and China’s defense industry has been focused on being able to deter or disrupt U.S. intervention in a Taiwan Strait crisis for more than a decade,” Stokes said. “Authoritative Chinese writings indicate that a fundamental requirement would be to deny U.S. carrier battle groups and their logistics support access to the area of operations. To do so, the PLA would need an integrated system of sensors, survivable communication systems, and advanced weaponry to achieve the desired effects.”

Artillery Corps

The People’s Liberation Army Second Artillery, the heart and soul of China’s missile command, has roughly 1,300 DF-11 and DF-15 short-range ballistic missiles aimed at Taiwan.

China also has the Russian-built SS-N-22 Sunburn anti-ship missiles outfitted on four new Russian refitted Sovremenny-class destroyers in the Chinese Navy. The Sunburn is designed to overcome cruise missile defenses by rising above the target and slamming down through the deck of an aircraft carrier.

“The capabilities described above constitute ‘deterrence by denial’ and should be viewed in a larger context of China’s deterrence of U.S. aircraft carrier groups in order to seize the island with the least bloodshed and physical damage,” Lin said.

The United States is not without options. The U.S. Navy is armed with Standard SM-3 missiles and attempts will be made to deny Chinese access to GPS during a conflict. China’s positioning satellites, the geosynchronous Beidou, do not cover the western Pacific.

However, Lin said China’s possession of an ASBM will throw a wrench into Washington’s decision-making apparatus on what to do about the eruption of a Taiwan Strait crisis.

“To intervene or not to intervene, that is the question. While the U.S. National Security Council is deliberating with hesitancy, the PLA can seize Taiwan with its conventional forces in a quick war of paralysis rather than annihilation,” Lin said.

“The still larger context which I have mentioned is that the top priority of Beijing on Taiwan is to ‘absorb without war.’ The military option is the lowest, but under aggressive and speedy preparation. However, even the military option has never been to ‘strike the U.S. and to destroy Taiwan,’ but rather ‘to deter the U.S. and to seize Taiwan’ intact as much as possible.”

Could the U.S. Intervene?

Stokes said a “question many friends in Taiwan have asked is whether or not the United States would intervene, should the PRC use force against Taiwan. As time goes on, it may become more of a question of could the U.S. intervene with sufficient alacrity before being handed a fait accompli.”

Paul Giarra, a retired U.S. naval officer, strategic planner and defense analyst, believes it is debatable whether the U.S. Navy’s visions for fleet ballistic missile defense plans will be sufficient to meet this threat.

“This points to a strategic-operational campaign of slow reduction of Chinese operational capabilities from great distance, over a considerable period of time, rather than a rapidly concluded attack from forward positions with the advantage of exterior lines of communication and freedom of the seas,” he said.

“Since the Air Force sneezes when the Navy catches cold in the Asia-Pacific aerospace theater of operations, this Chinese capability thereby will make it difficult for the U.S. military to operate close enough to employ not only its naval surface fleet, but its land-based air power as well, Giarra said. Chinese multiple-warhead [anti-ballistic missiles] will necessitate significant technical and operational responses on the part of the American military.”

“While history does not repeat, it does rhyme. A Chinese ASBM scenario would appear to bring us back to early 1942, and the start of the long advance on Tokyo.”

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