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S

Serb

Junior Member
Registered Member
tamsen_ikard said:
Restraint becomes kind of a weakness when it's so beneficial for to be restrained. Then it becomes a handcuff that prevents you from taking action against provocation because you keep thinking, not yet, I need to hold on until I am stronger and my position is more favorable. China's biggest advantage is that it is so intelligent, restrained and thinks long term. But it is also its biggest weakness because everyone thinks they are too afraid to take costly actions.

If China was as unhinged as US for example, they would have banned all rare earth export to any country that bans Chip exports. That would have crippled Chip industry of US and Taiwan. It would have been such a huge action that whole world would have taken notice. It also would have deterred US to pursue more Chip sanctions.

What has China banned in response to all the Huawei bans in Europe and Australia? Did they ban Apple and German cars for example? For being a potential spy tool?

They have been extremely restrained because they cannot take these actions without huge costs to its own economy. and there is a fundamental difference between what US and the west wants and what China wants.

China's goal is to get richer and stronger, not to bring US down. But for US, they are already rich, they are already on top. They just want to bring China down. So, they can take actions that is costly for their economy, hoping that it will cost China more and maybe cause a collapse.

This is the fundamental difference between China and the USSR. China wants its own rise, USSR wanted to bring US down.

This is all very good and intelligent from China. But it is also a weakness in the Taiwan scenario. Because Taiwan and US can keep on Salami slicing all they want and China cannot take strong action without causing problems to their long term goal.
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Why should they ban Apple and German cars when they are made in China, Apple is completely made in China, while German cars are made in China for the local population and a little for export, those German car makers are usually net positive to China, while Apple is almost like a Chinese company. Apple is de facto, not an American company, it's more of an international company, just like the majority of "American" large corporations. They pay next to nothing in corporate taxes in the US, they use tax havens, and have most of the work done in China, invest the most in China, and probably have only headquarters and a small number of employees left in the US.

Apple pays much more taxes and social spending in China in terms of income taxes, it helps China's supply chain, it pays for factory bills like water, electricity, and others there, and at first, all that investment money goes into China's construction sector when they build their facilities, factories, etc, it's all in China's GDP, from construction materials to furniture later.

It improves China's GDP way more than it improves the US GDP. That's just like you said China should "ban" their own "cash cow" and a company that brings them way more money than the US could ever hope to get from them. It's a really bad example of what to do.

As for the rare earths, I'm not an expert, but I watched some videos on Youtube that say that China already restricts some of those tech exports related to that sector, maybe someone could also explain this. The information is scarce and I would also like to know.
 
C

Chevalier

Captain
Registered Member
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1643586600054710272

When you’re so pathetic you try to start a race war against china because you were cuckolded and can’t even get a shengnu to commit to you.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1643704144304263169

Even stoltenberg‘s forebears, the Wehrmacht said that they were purely a defensive entity, even against bolshevism.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1643700479673913344
Reminds me of the Animatrix: the second renaissance where Americans couldn’t get enough or 01 tech and so started a nuclear war.

re the rare earths, if I recall @ZeEa5KPul once mooted an idea of labeling and tracking each piece of rare earth element (with blockchain?) once it leaves China so it can better sanction entities that supply rare earths to say Raytheon or Northrop Grumman.
 
supercat

supercat

Colonel
Stierlitz said:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
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It's called paying lip service. It's not important. What China actually does is far more important.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1643489014572519424

BoraTas said:
Biden era saw a comprehensive collapse of US influence in the Middle East. Quite hilarious considering the US literally spent trillions in the last 35 years in the Middle East. An entire generation of military modernization cycle was wasted because of GWOT related spending and hardware. All for nothing.
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While not many schools and hospitals were built in the occupied countries with the trillions of dollars, the MIC and private contractors benefited tremondeously nevertheless. It's indeed mission accomplished.
h6JIr7e.jpg


Saudi Arabia is done pleasing the US.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1643306551849934849

Here is why.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1643699332418359297

coolgod said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1643699318396706819
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It's good to see that not every American is a China-hating warmonger.
 
4

4channer

New Member
Registered Member
Phead128 said:
Why is your response different from mine? Are you using a different prompt?
View attachment 110508
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I'm using the Opera browser built-in function.
ChatGPT almost always claims that the news I link are either fake, debunked, fictional or hypothetical scenarios. After a while, ChatGPT acknowledges that Abe is indeed dead, but that he died from Covid-19 or other illness. And in October 2022, not July, for example. Sometimes ChatGPT claims that knowledge cutoff date was April 2023, not 2021! Apparently, ChatGPT is able to search the Internet and read the articles, but doesn't trust them.

deHF.png
 
supercat

supercat

Colonel
tamsen_ikard said:
They want to become independent without declaring independence. And currently they are succeeding towards moving to that goal step by step.

But China's goal is much harder. They have to actually takeover Taiwan physically. That's a much harder goal than the simple recognition game. So, China hasn't made any progress in their goal while Taiwan has been making a lot of progress in their goal.
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I'm not sure Taiwan is succeeding. They lost 9 countries, or more than 40%, of their diplomatic relations since Tsai's reign. They have only 13 countries left.

Today's is the 13th anniversary of the release of a video by Julian Assange that exposed US' war crime.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1643613523778453504
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1643606125911109636

Slave labors, including child labor, till the cotton fields in Xinjiang.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1643514639832190976
 
baykalov

baykalov

Senior Member
Registered Member
Chevalier said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1643704144304263169

Even stoltenberg‘s forebears, the Wehrmacht said that they were purely a defensive entity, even against bolshevism.
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Everyone is aware that the North Atlantic Treaty Organization was founded as a North American/Western European military alliance against the now defunct Soviet Union in 1949. The USSR was said to be a “threat against Democracy” and the “boogie man”, being the largest country and Communist state in world history. In addition to the threat of the USSR, the Eastern European counter military alliance was created by the USSR in 1955, the Warsaw Pact. After decades of the infamous Cold War, General Secretary of the USSR Mikhail Gorbachev agreed with the US and NATO to allow East and West Germany to reunite in 1990. In addition, he agreed to dissolve the Warsaw Pact military alliance and withdraw all Soviet military units from Eastern Europe. In return, General Secretary Gorbachev was promised by US Secretary of State James Baker that NATO would not move “one inch Eastward”. Gorbachev kept his word, dissolved the Warsaw Pact, and withdrew all Soviet military units from Eastern Europe. Shortly thereafter, the USSR itself lost its economic war to the West in 1991 when the US led the charge to crash crude oil prices. The 15 Soviet Socialist Republics dissolved into 15 different nations, with the Russian SSR being the successor state of the USSR.

From 1992 to 1999, all was quiet as the 15 former Republics of the defunct Soviet Union were in shambles economically, socially, and militarily. The new Russian Federation moved away from being a Communist state to a quasi Socialist/Capitalist one.

NATO expansion timeline and broken commitments by the US and NATO:
- 1999 Czechia, Hungary and Poland (former Warsaw Pact nations)
- 2004 Bulgaria and Romania (former Warsaw Pact nations), Estonia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Slovakia (3 nations on Russian border)
- 2008 President George W Bush announced that Georgia and Ukraine would be allowed to join NATO. Russian President Vladimir Putin states that this is unacceptable. Russia enters military conflict in Georgia after skirmishes.
- 2009 Albania and Croatia
- 2014 US sponsors a coup in Ukraine. Russia seizes the Crimea.
- 2017 Montenegro
- 2020 North Macedonia
- 2022 Russia invades Ukraine
- 2023 Finland
- TBD Sweden

The Warsaw Pact was gone. The Soviet Union was gone. Communism was gone. Yet from 1999 to 2020, NATO continued to ask Vladimir Putin why he was so concerned with his nation being encircled by a hostile military alliance. The West’s newest narrative in 2023 is, because Russia invaded Ukraine, it “caused” Finland and Sweden to join NATO.

Question which begs to be answered: What then “caused” (14) nations to join NATO from 1999 to 2020? :rolleyes:

The USSR kept its word, the US and NATO did not. No nation in the West can ever be trusted. They have absolutely zero integrity.

This entire sequence of events was all by design to move NATO right up to Russia’s border, and eventually cause the collapse of the Russian state. Then a fractured Russia could easily be raided by the bandits of the West for its vast natural resources.

Now NATO has openly stated that China, a nation on the other side of the world, is a “threat to Democracy”. Do you notice a pattern?!
 
G

getready

Senior Member
Sleepyjam said:
You have no idea what you are talking about. Exercise around Taiwan helps with training and demoralize the other side through attrition and economic risk. Does India have the guts to invade Pakistan and occupy the whole country(sovereignty status nonstanding)? China‘s goal isn’t to simply bomb some minor location but to reunify with the island of Taiwan. Simply dropping some bombs is easy but it’s far different than permanently occupying Taiwan.
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I will be cautious about engaging this tansem guy. The fact he wants to bring up the examples of bumbling Indian regime and the murderous much hated Israeli regime to emulate shows his agenda. Also displays his ignorance of Chinese leadership and overall policy of reunification.
 
Bellum_Romanum

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
tamsen_ikard said:
Well based on China's population they should have 3-4 times US total GDP. Why fight with 12.5K GDP per capita when they can get to 50K GDP per capita in 30 years. When they get so big, do you think US and EU will even dream about sanctioning China? By then China will be economic center of the world.

Where will China's military be in 30 years? Could they have 20+ Carriers? 5000+ stealth fighters? Sure they can with their level of Population and GDP at that time.

So, why fight now when you are still kinda weak when you can be so much stronger.

So, this is the biggest reason for China's current restraint. They get so much more benefits by keeping their head down and focusing on development.





I was talking about this Balakot strike. Ofcourse it was embarrassing for India in the end but that didn't matter. By taking action India was able to show that it is unhinged and aggressive enough to strike. It escalated so much that Pakistan was then forced to stop its covert strike against the Indian Army in Kashmir. Now there is no more strikes by Pakistani proxies against India. Instead India is on the offensive in Kashmir by changing into a dictatorship and changed laws to move Hindus into kashmir.



Taiwan is even getting that when Biden talks about defending Taiwan and the US think tank promotes Clarity. Republicans in fact openly want Taiwan Independence. If an aggressive GOP president wins, you bet they might allow Taiwan Representative Office. Congress is so anti-China and Pro-Taiwan, they want to donate weapons to Taiwan instead of just Taiwan buying it. Very soon, GOP might even openly allow Taiwan to go for Nuclear Weapons. Slowly but surely Status quo is changing against China and all they are doing is military exercises. Just not strong enough
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Just not strong enough until bombs and troops starts pouring into Taiwan with American ships become a smoldering wreckage sinking into the South China Sea.

I agree with the premise of your argument as much as I loathed it but I do see the logic of what you have said regarding China's goal and constraints with respect to China's aims and objectives vis-a-vis vis Taiwan which is to prolong or hold off on the armed reunification for as long as possible while building up its huge military to create not only deterrence against America and its allies but also to compel and create an impossible and inevitable scenario for the Taiwanese separatists that Independence is a lost cause.

America's and Europe's goal are to keep on needling China's red line until all the red lines all but vanished and goad China in untenable position where the only viable option is for China to activate armed reunification no different to the Russian decision to invade Ukraine circa 2022. All fine and dandy since the American and western prognostication is that the outcome of such a war with China will favor the west judging from the way and perceived Russian ineptitude and incompetence in their war against Ukraine without direct U.S. involvement, a war with China over Taiwan that guarantees US allied direct participation gives the impression that China despite it's fast pace military development, procurement, and the manpower it possess is nothing but a paper tiger with anemic or next to nothing experience compared to the supposed decades and institutional advantages US military possess.

Such arrogant assumptions and gross underestimation of China's military not to mention it's MORALE AND WILL TO PREVENT THE REPEAT OF 100 YEARS OF HUMILIATION along with all of civilization struggle against U.S. led alliance and Taiwan are factors that no American idiots have taken to fully understand or appreciate. The American way of war will have to be upended and must be revised if it stupidly assumes that a war over Taiwan is going to be limited to within China's periphery.
 
S

Sleepyjam

Junior Member
Registered Member
tamsen_ikard said:
Restraint becomes kind of a weakness when it's so beneficial for to be restrained. Then it becomes a handcuff that prevents you from taking action against provocation because you keep thinking, not yet, I need to hold on until I am stronger and my position is more favorable. China's biggest advantage is that it is so intelligent, restrained and thinks long term. But it is also its biggest weakness because everyone thinks they are too afraid to take costly actions.

If China was as unhinged as US for example, they would have banned all rare earth export to any country that bans Chip exports. That would have crippled Chip industry of US and Taiwan. It would have been such a huge action that whole world would have taken notice. It also would have deterred US to pursue more Chip sanctions.

What has China banned in response to all the Huawei bans in Europe and Australia? Did they ban Apple and German cars for example? For being a potential spy tool?

They have been extremely restrained because they cannot take these actions without huge costs to its own economy. and there is a fundamental difference between what US and the west wants and what China wants.

China's goal is to get richer and stronger, not to bring US down. But for US, they are already rich, they are already on top. They just want to bring China down. So, they can take actions that is costly for their economy, hoping that it will cost China more and maybe cause a collapse.

This is the fundamental difference between China and the USSR. China wants its own rise, USSR wanted to bring US down.

This is all very good and intelligent from China. But it is also a weakness in the Taiwan scenario. Because Taiwan and US can keep on Salami slicing all they want and China cannot take strong action without causing problems to their long term goal.



There is a difference between what is called a success for DPP vs what is a success for China. The Taiwan independence battle is battle of recognition. Taiwan is already de-facto separate from the mainland. But what Taiwan independence crowd really hated was that the west didn't interact with Taiwan on a political level. They wanted recognition from US and the west as a country.

Now they are kind of getting it. Not overtly, but bit by bit. slowly. Now politicians and ministers from western countries are visiting Taiwan as if it is a country. These ministers and official meet Tsai as if She is a president of a country. That is the recognition they seek.

When Tsai gets to visit the US or talk to US leaders, that's a win for them. When Lithuania opens a "Taiwan Representative Office", that'a huge win for them. Cause what is the difference between a "Taiwan representative office" vs a "taiwan embassy"? Very little.

Slowly but surely Taiwan is moving towards de-facto recognition of Taiwan Independence. They will not declare independence but they dont need to if presidents and leaders from US and the west openly visits Taiwan, Taiwan gets to open these representative offices and gets to openly participate in sports as "Taiwan".

They want to become independent without declaring independence. And currently they are succeeding towards moving to that goal step by step.

But China's goal is much harder. They have to actually takeover Taiwan physically. That's a much harder goal than the simple recognition game. So, China hasn't made any progress in their goal while Taiwan has been making a lot of progress in their goal.
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Lol it’s “Taiwanese” not “Taiwan” representative office. The number of countries recognizing Taiwan went from 18 in 2018 to 12 in 2023 and the number will very likely dwindle in the future. Where is this US presidential visit? Where are these newly opened representative offices when they have just been booted out of Honduras. Where is the “Taiwan” in Olympics? Get your face straight and stop spreading disinformation.

Not to mention their so called trusted ally in the west wants to destroy their semiconductor industry at the first sign of a conflict. They have utterly failed at diplomacy.
 
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manqiangrexue

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
tamsen_ikard said:
There is a difference between what is called a success for DPP vs what is a success for China. The Taiwan independence battle is battle of recognition. Taiwan is already de-facto separate from the mainland. But what Taiwan independence crowd really hated was that the west didn't interact with Taiwan on a political level. They wanted recognition from US and the west as a country.

Now they are kind of getting it. Not overtly, but bit by bit. slowly. Now politicians and ministers from western countries are visiting Taiwan as if it is a country. These ministers and official meet Tsai as if She is a president of a country. That is the recognition they seek.

When Tsai gets to visit the US or talk to US leaders, that's a win for them. When Lithuania opens a "Taiwan Representative Office", that'a huge win for them. Cause what is the difference between a "Taiwan representative office" vs a "taiwan embassy"? Very little.

Slowly but surely Taiwan is moving towards de-facto recognition of Taiwan Independence. They will not declare independence but they dont need to if presidents and leaders from US and the west openly visits Taiwan, Taiwan gets to open these representative offices and gets to openly participate in sports as "Taiwan".

They want to become independent without declaring independence. And currently they are succeeding towards moving to that goal step by step.

But China's goal is much harder. They have to actually takeover Taiwan physically. That's a much harder goal than the simple recognition game. So, China hasn't made any progress in their goal while Taiwan has been making a lot of progress in their goal.
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That's called dropping the standards to cope with a harsh reality. China's goal does not change; it is to take over and liberate Taiwan from Western brain rot and re-educate them to realize the glory of being Chinese, the only people who were both and ancient and modern superpower. The goal of the ROC government was at first to take back China from the CCP. When it became apparent that America did not have the power to help them do that, it dropped to becoming an independent country. And now that they realized that a declaration of independence meant a firey traitor's death that no country could save them from, it's just to meet some Westerners and hear some good words. At a certain point, you can't stop people from "winning" when they drop the bar too damn low. You can defeat someone when his goal is to conquer you; you can defeat him again when his goal is to fight you to a deadlock and split the victory evenly; you can defeat him once more when all he wants is to post a successful defense against you and prevent himself from succumbing to your power, but can you defeat him again if all he wants is to find some people to talk to??? How about just to exist?? LOL When the loser continues to change the definition of victory for himself in order to prevent total depression, you need not follow it. None of that matters as long as China holds steady to its goal and grows its power to get ever closer to it.
 
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