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- Thread starter bd popeye
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I just love our spokeswoman, Hua chun Ying. So elegantly spoken, but with authority and grace.
I love the line "give America a large mirror!"
I love the line "give America a large mirror!"
I for one don't think that there is any true friendship between China and Israel. It looks more like a business-like relationship between the two of them. If Israel had to choose between China and the West, the answer is blatantly obvious. All that military technology transfer between Israel and China. Those are not for free. China paid for them, whether legally or not. Considering China's military technology levels in the 90s to 00s. If modern Israeli military technology is available for a price, then by all means go get them.
China's relationship with Israel is and should remain as neutral as possible. China should neither embrace nor hate Israel. If Pakistan might feel sensitive about China's arms deals with Israel. Then Pakistan can look at its other Muslim buddies: Turkey and Azerbaijan. Those two are big customers of Israeli arms. Turkey and Azerbaijan bought Israeli Harop drones, Spike missiles, tank upgrades, and small arms. Erdogan rants about Israeli cruelty, but still buys arms from them! LOL! So, I think that if Pakistan wants to buy Israeli toys, Israel should sell. Politics be damned. So back to China. It has a good business relationship with Israel, but China does not admire Israel's Zionism.
If there is one country obsessed about embracing Israel, that's India. India bought a lot of Israeli arms, thinking that it automatically makes them 'elite'. That childish mentality culminated with the 2019 Balakot airstrike. Where India wanted to emulate the Israel's aggressive "air raid diplomacy" on Pakistan. The Indians even dropped Israeli-made SPICE bombs. We all know what happened later. Indian cruelty in Kashmir is probably inspired by how the Israel manages Gaza. Often, we can hear the Jai Hinds cheering the massacre of Palestinians just because they love Israel, and Pakistan stands with the Palestinians. Jai Hinds are perhaps the second biggest foreign fans of Israeli militarism, behind conservative Americans. India is the one that is thinking that it is family with Israel. But I doubt that Israel thinks of India as its family. Israel already have Uncle Sam. LOL!
I am well aware of Israel's military history. The ugliness of Zionism. The modern-day apartheid being inflicted on the Palestinians. I despise the cruelty of the IDF on Palestinians, Lebanese, Syrians, and other Arabs. I look forward to a day when a Middle Eastern power is able to stand up against Israel and uphold Arab justice. But I am also not blind to the impressive achievements of the Israeli military. Bullying incompetent Arab militaries, insurgents, and terrorist groups aside. Israel had been able to cause pain to the Soviet and Russian militaries. So if there is opportunity to learn some fighting techniques and obtain military tech from Israel, I see: why not?
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To put it in a simpler way - the same can be said of China doing business the the rest of the world. It's mutually beneficial until it's not. Look no further than China vis-a-vis the US and now Australia. Would you then say China and Australia are on friendly terms since the Chinese are still buying iron ore from the Aussies?
In politics, there are no such thing as friends, only interests.
The Arabs waged 3 offensive wars in the span of 25 years where any one of those lost by Israel would have meant a 2nd holocaust. Don't be mistaken, if the power differential was reversed in the favor of Arabs, the Arabs would literally slaughter every Jew.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Context is key.
For Israel, helping China wasn’t them sticking their neck on the line. It was playing the odds, hedging their bets and making money.
Back when all these deals were going down, China and America were not BFFs anymore, but hardly enemies either. Hell, America was busy flogging their own military gear to China till their first coloured revolution attempt failed. As far as Israel was concerned, it was a fair commercial deal
Israel was selling China defence technology they had developed. It might have benefited massively from American tech injections, but it was still Israeli IP and they didn’t need anyone’s permission to sell it.
Yes, Israel were not stupid and knew there was a risk it would upset the Americans, but they were also fully aware none of it would have carried any serious consequences for themselves so long as they stopped as soon as America got uncomfortable, which is what happened.
The key thing to remember in Sino-Israeli relations is that there is no real or deep love of China in Israel. They have no reason to love China. Nor do they have anything like the influence over China like they do with American politicians and media.
That, unfortunately means that if forced to pick a side, Israel will pick America every single time, even when China is significantly more powerful than America, hell, maybe especially so then.
Trump might be a lousy businessman, but even he would not be so stupid as to gift Israel it’s holy grail of American recognition of its ownership of all of Jerusalem without costs and conditions. Given Trump’s obsession with China and the sudden, mysterious death of the Chinese ambassador to Israel shortly before all of this kicked off, and the trajectory of Sino-Israeli relations since, one doesn’t need to be a genius to figure out what kind of devil’s bargain was struck and the offering the Israelis made to cement their new pact. Just look at the unusually blunt Chinese moved in the Middle East since to see how Beijing is taking all this.
@plawolf Sir may I add, another consequences is the China Iran 25 years investment deal. Clearly China had also pick side and its a huge one compare to Israel.
Based on some of the comments I read either on another military forum or from another social media site, where one of the person who commented stated that when he had the opportunity to talk to an I.D.F. veteran from the 1967 War and the Yom Kippur war at some tank museum, the old veteran who was volunteering was asked what made the I.D.F. so adept in battle against seemingly overwhelming numbers of enemies. The old man responded was that Israel was very lucky that the countries and people they fought were Arabs because if Israel were to have fought any other countries he thought they would have lost the war each and every time. Arabs in his mind and their assessment are nothing but incompetent and their own caste like system in the officer Corps and to the way they trained their forces were mediocre at best and pathetically worst which led to the worst results at the battlefield.