Miscellaneous News

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
What weapons program or equipment did the PLA sought, bought, and procured from and by Israel? I wasn't aware of this particular transactional partnership between Israel and China existed.
Here is a super old article from 1993(!)
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Those sold by Israel are said by specialists to include technology for the Python - the Israeli version of the US Sparrow air-to-air missile - and technology developed for the US-financed Lavi jet, which the Israelis cancelled some years ago.
The US is also concerned that Israel may have passed on technology for the Arrow anti-missile missile, a joint US-Israel project, which is based on the Patriot missile used in the Gulf war.
Morton Miller, a former state department analyst, said the real figure for sale of Israeli arms to China was between dollars 8bn and dollars 10bn.

There are even more articles saying about transfering drone tech, tanks etc

Can you imagine the balls that Israel had to sell China all these technologies under the nose of the hegemon US?

China wont forget this kind of help. Israelis were smart and thus played a good game here. They ensured that they will be in the good graces of the next superpower.
 

Skye_ZTZ_113

Junior Member
Registered Member
What weapons program or equipment did the PLA sought, bought, and procured from and by Israel? I wasn't aware of this particular transactional partnership between Israel and China existed.
There was also some talk about the Type 96/99's Fire Control System being originally sold by the Israelis, though I cannot prove this. I will say that China's tank FCS back in 2000 stood as an unusual outlier among former Soviet military equipment users, most of whom struggled to hit targets on the move and had poor accuracy. A problem Russia today still seems to have issues with, going by the tank biathalon(?)
 

daifo

Major
Registered Member
What weapons program or equipment did the PLA sought, bought, and procured from and by Israel? I wasn't aware of this particular transactional partnership between Israel and China existed.
j-10 was built with Israeli technical help, hence the similarity to the israeli lavi (it wasn't stolen as some western chest thumpers like to claim). I remember they try selling Awacs to China in the early 2000s but were blocked by the US.
 

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
j-10 was built with Israeli technical help, hence the similarity to the israeli lavi (it wasn't stolen as some western chest thumpers like to claim). I remember they try selling Awacs to China in the early 2000s but were blocked by the US.
Haha yes. These Israelis were damn crazy man. Imagine the guts to sell force multipliers AWACS to China at that time lol

They even got sanctioned (or threatened by the US) at 2005 (?) if they didn't stop these military transfers.

Whenever people say that Israel is China's enemy, I facepalm. In fact I would say that it is one of it's friends

In contrast to some countries which just request handouts, and try to play both sides, Israel said lets cut a deal and I will transfer you US technology. Find me another country on the Middle East, that had so clearly demonstrated its will to help China at the 1990s

Israel has helped China with significant actions and not with some sweet words. Israel can rest assured that it will always find China an all-weather friend and that it can share its concerns to it, about matters in the region affecting Israel


On the other hand, Israel should also recognise that China must save "face" and stop going overboard with the Palestinians. China has bonded with Pakistan and it is making inroads to the Muslim world. Israel should understand China's strategy and that some things have their limits.

IMO Israel will get what it wants in this conflict and then it should heed China's call to negotiate with the Palestinians.

Israel will enter negotiations by being in a position of strength while Palestine will be weak unless the Arab States drop their shenanigans and decide to fully support it (doubt..)
 

Sardaukar20

Captain
Registered Member
I have heard from many people that China should consider Israel an enemy.

I categorically disagree with this assertion

Israel has helped China's military tremendously. Yes Israel was out for cash, but dont forget that cutting edge mil tech is invaluable, its something you cant just buy with cash. And lets not forget Israel illegally "transferring" US technology to China lol

To me this is more than enough to show that Israel is not only a partner but even a friend. When China had weak military, Israel risked a lot and helped it acquire all sorts of technologies and equipment (was paid ofc). The Chinese leaders and the PLA wont forget the assitance that Israel provided to them when they were weak.

China will call for stopping of violence, and a resolution in the UN (even if vetoed by the US) to discuss the Israel-Palistine confilit and even act as a mediator for them. However there is no way that China will turn its back and throw Israel to the wolves.

Israel helped China and China wont forget that help so easily.

Some Pakistani members might be disappointed but thats the truth. China places high importance to China-Israel relations.
True. China have a lot to thank Israel for selling to them cutting edge military technologies. Israel exported to China UAVs like the IAI Harpy loitering munition in the early 2000s. There are also other stuff like missiles, electronics, and radar tech sold by Israel to China. Its hard to find evidence about these deals now. But these were an open secret back in the early 2000s.

With all due credit to Chinese designers, it is not entirely impossible that the J-10 may have some inspiration or design inputs from the IAI Lavi program. The jets look outwardly similar, and they have similar roles, to be the single-engined multirole workhorses for their respected air forces.

I may be wrong, but I do suspect the Chinese HJ-10 and HJ-12 ATGMs may have benefited from some technology transfer from the Israeli Spike missiles. Some other countries who developed similar systems needed to import Spike missiles beforehand. For example, South Korea and India imported the Spike missiles before developing their own systems. The Spike missile was submitted to participate in the US Army JAWS missile program in 1996, but then the US developed and selected the Javelin. I don't know if they reverse-engineered the Spike missile, but the Javelin looks and operates awfully similar. Russia has not yet developed a similar ATGM system till today. But then China, with no prior experience in developing modern F&F ATGMs, and had not bought such systems, can suddenly come up with the HJ-10 and HJ-12? And they look and operate very similarly to Spike NLOS and Spike ER? I suspect there could be something going on in the background between Israel and China. Maybe legal, maybe not.

Even as recently as this year, some Israelis were caught secretly selling Israeli suicide drones (highly suspected to be IAI Harops) to China.
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"There have been numerous similar problematic sales to China in the past, many of which have angered the US. Israel plays a dangerous game of both cultivating trade with China while trying to maintain the close relationship with the US," Silverstein told MEE.
The sale marks the second time that China has purchased "loitering" munitions from Israeli manufacturers. The
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was in 1998.

These weapons, nicknamed "suicide drones," have become a trademark of two Israeli arms companies: Israeli Aerospace Industries (IAI) and Aeronautics Ltd, which was bought by Rafael.
A new
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on Israeli exports launched by the American Friends Service Committee, a Quaker organisation, lists three arms-export deals between Israel and China between 1998 and 2008: they involved missiles, loitering munitions and a satellite for the Beijing Olympics.

Now, don't get me wrong. Israel selling cutting edge military tech to China does not mean that they are suddenly the 'good guys'. It does not absolve Israel of the crimes against humanity that its inflicting onto the Palestinians in Gaza. This is not a problem for China to solve or condemn. China is in a grey zone here, but that has always been China's specialty in diplomacy. China has no problems getting along with Saudi Arabia, Myanmar, and various other despotic regimes. China just says, its not their business, and they don't interfere in the internal affairs of other countries. Because China is not a democracy, some Chinese citizens who hate Israel is not gonna affect Sino-Israeli ties.
 

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
True. China have a lot to thank Israel for selling to them cutting edge military technologies. Israel exported to China UAVs like the IAI Harpy loitering munition in the early 2000s. There are also other stuff like missiles, electronics, and radar tech sold by Israel to China. Its hard to find evidence about these deals now. But these were an open secret back in the early 2000s.

With all due credit to Chinese designers, it is not entirely impossible that the J-10 may have some inspiration or design inputs from the IAI Lavi program. The jets look outwardly similar, and they have similar roles, to be the single-engined multirole workhorses for their respected air forces.

I may be wrong, but I do suspect the Chinese HJ-10 and HJ-12 ATGMs may have benefited from some technology transfer from the Israeli Spike missiles. Other countries who developed similar systems needed to import Spike missiles beforehand. For example, South Korea and India imported the Spike missiles before developing their own systems. The Spike missile was submitted to participate in the US Army JAWS missile program in 1996, but then the US developed and selected the Javelin. I don't know if they reverse-engineered the Spike missile, but the Javelin looks and operates awfully similar. Russia has not yet developed a similar ATGM system till today. But then China, with no prior experience in developing modern F&F ATGMs, and had not bought such systems can suddenly come up with the HJ-10 and HJ-12? And they look and operate very similarly to Spike NLOS and Spike ER? I suspect there could be something going on in the background between Israel and China. Maybe legal, maybe not.

Even as recently as this year, some Israelis were caught secretly selling Israeli suicide drones (highly suspected to be IAI Harops) to China.
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Now, don't get me wrong. Israel selling cutting edge military tech to China does not mean that they are suddenly the 'good guys'. It does not absolve Israel of the crimes against humanity that its inflicting onto the Palestinians in Gaza. This is not a problem for China to solve or condemn. China is in a grey zone here, but that has always been China's specialty in diplomacy. China has no problems getting along with Saudi Arabia, Myanmar, and various other despotic regimes. China just says, its not their business, and they don't interfere in the internal affairs of other countries. Because China is not a democracy, some Chinese citizens who hate Israel is not gonna affect Sino-Israeli ties.
Agreed. China however needs some "face" on the world stage. Due to making inroads to the Muslim World, it needs to show some more "strength", Wang Yi will just step on the podium parrot some lines about "non-interference", "respect core interests", "common destiny for mankind" yada yada and get on the next issue lol

However this also doesn't mean that China will sit still while Israel massacres Palestines, China needs to show that it is also "humane" and that it should strive to find a way to diffuse the conflict. IMO, Wang Yi invitation to Palestine and Israel to talk is a good one. However I fear that Israel might not accept due to it being in a position of strength now

Palestine needs the Arab States to back it, otherwise it is in trouble.
 

KYli

Brigadier

Shame on Tiktok for succumbing to Israeli pressure . Why exactly is China allowing Tiktok to behave like Fb/Twitter?
China often criticizes American companies (Fb/Insta/Twitter) for striking down Pro China accounts/views and now its own companies are engaging in censorship.
ByteDance CEO Zhang Yiming capitulated a few hours after the US threatened him with sanction. If the Chinese government didn't intervene, Tiktok would have become an American company right now. Tiktok has tried to become internationalized and distance itself from China ever since then.

Douyin is the Chinese version of Tiktok that the Chinese government has controlled over. Tiktok's headquarter is in Singapore, the US, and UK which China doesn't have any control over.
 

solarz

Brigadier

Shame on Tiktok for succumbing to Israeli pressure . Why exactly is China allowing Tiktok to behave like Fb/Twitter?
China often criticizes American companies (Fb/Insta/Twitter) for striking down Pro China accounts/views and now its own companies are engaging in censorship.

Tik tok CEO doesn't care about nationalism. He's very pro-West and part of the Capitalist class.
 

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
Tik tok CEO doesn't care about nationalism. He's very pro-West and part of the Capitalist class.
Never forget that TikTok and Bytedance wanted to bow down to Trump, humiliating China while Trump was waging Trade and Tech war against China.

I am sure the executives who approved that "deal" are being named and categorised as "unreliable" in a list somewhere in Beijing.
 
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