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manqiangrexue

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
voyager1 said:
As you know S and N Korea are still officially in a ceasefire. The next step which president Moon wanted to achieve, and spent a lot of political capital, is to have a formal peace treaty so that officially N and S Korea will have stopped the war.

Now formally the war has stopped a long time ago, but if a peace treaty could be made then that would be momentous step on what the Koreans want, unification.

Actually when Moon was elected he wished for a peace treaty but the Trump (in my opinion) administration wasn't acting in a good faith and the negotiations broke down. Now Moon tried to be in China's good grace but it didn't achieve much on this front, imo mainly because of US sabotage on N.Korea peace treaty and China's reluctance to use its influence.

Moon has faced tremendous pressure domestically because of sticking close to China but he still remains committed on this relationship. However as long as results are not produced, dont be surprised if he is eventually forced to change stance.

Thats why I am saying that its time for China to start delivering for S.Korea (obviously China will buy its neutrality or even friendship). China talks a lot but it doesn't deliver on the N.Korea issue. The rest of the world knows that China holds influence on N.Korea which whilst not unlimited it is still powerful


TLDR: In the period of extreme competition with the US, China should start producing results where it can if it wants to demonstrate that it is a true friend/ or a trustworthy long-term partner
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I know the situation in Korea. What do you want China to deliver? North Korea isn't selling itself for a price; Kim's not about to leave his throne for "the goods." There's not even a price tag for a peace declaration and even if there was some monstrous price tag, it's not China's price to pay. That's why "Goods = N + S.Korea peace declaration" doesn't make any sense to me. And before America departs the peninsula and its influence is swept away, reunification is too dangerous for China. Having North Korea as a buffer is still the best unless and until South Korea somehow shows that it would never stand with the US against China.
 
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voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
manqiangrexue said:
I know the situation in Korea. What do you want China to deliver? North Korea isn't selling itself for a price; Kim's not about to leave his throne for "the goods." There's not even a price tag for a peace declaration and even if there was some monstrous price tag, it's not China's price to pay. That's why "Goods = N + S.Korea peace declaration" doesn't make any sense to me. And before America departs the peninsula and its influence is swept away, reunification is too dangerous for China. Having North Korea as a buffer is still the best unless and until South Korea somehow shows that it would never stand with the US against China.
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Agreed that unificiation is impossible currently. However a peace treaty is certainly possible if China pressured N.Korea while also putting on the deal that US would stop military exercises(China would put the optics that the US is a readblock to N+S relations). There are certainly ways for China to make the peace treaty happen.

Regarding the price tag, obviously it is for the coming extreme competition with the US. If China can demonstrate that it is willing to use its influence for a core S.Korea issue then S.Korea would certainly become at least neutral/China-leaning country.

However I would agree that overall the US bases there are a big problem for the N + S.Korea relations
 
manqiangrexue

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
voyager1 said:
Agreed that unificiation is impossible currently. However a peace treaty is certainly possible if China pressured N.Korea while also putting on the deal that US would stop military exercises(China would put the optics that the US is a readblock to N+S relations). There are certainly ways for China to make the peace treaty happen.
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After reading this, I am still completely unsure how you think China can bring about a peace treaty between North and South Korea. Kim has expressed no interest and American military operations in the area are not dictated by South Korea nor have they expressed an interest to trade their American partnership for a peace treaty. The pieces don't fit together.
voyager1 said:
Regarding the price tag, obviously it is for the coming extreme competition with the US. If China can demonstrate that it is willing to use its influence for a core S.Korea issue then S.Korea would certainly become at least neutral/China-leaning country.
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No, I wouldn't bear it for that reason. Democracies are untrustworthy because they can flip flop with each presidency but the price you pay has been paid and is gone forever. There is no indication that some peace treaty would solidify any Korean relationship with China in the current political situation.

To gain South Korean favor, China can only show them again and again that being on the US side is being on the losing side in Asia. Paying them or doing things for them is simply a fool's errand. They are a sly vixen and you can buy her things; you can fix her car and she might pay you a kiss but once you're done, she's out on the market again. To win her, you have only one option and that is to be the biggest gangster in town.
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
emblem21 said:
As a matter of interest, what does Asia as a whole see in regards the anti Asian activity the USA since I cannot imagine that either China, Russia, Iran or basically any none western nation not bring this up at any meeting that the USA has with any of them because it is pretty obvious to the whole world that the USA is a racist dirt hole that no other sensible nation would want to invest in.
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There is no reason and precedent in history that "race" plays any real role in real power/interest struggle. Race is a constructed concept by racist for their material interest.

So, Asia as a whole is a non existent concept to begin with. For example, the most racist regime Nazi Germany persecuted/killed millions of European Jews, many of them share the blood with "pure" Germans up to 90% (like only 1/8th Jewish ancestry) and they are not even foreigners on occupied land. Yet the Nazis tried to have a warm relationship with Arabs against the British, while the Arabs share the same ancestor with Jews. Ironic, isn't?

So for a racist, it will pick up you regardless your true "race", in the same way it will not defend you for the same "race" it shares with you either. "race" is only an excuse for violence, it is nothing if it does not serve such purpose.
 
j17wang

j17wang

Senior Member
Registered Member
taxiya said:
There is no reason and precedent in history that "race" plays any real role in real power/interest struggle. Race is a constructed concept by racist for their material interest.

So, Asia as a whole is a non existent concept to begin with. For example, the most racist regime Nazi Germany persecuted/killed millions of European Jews, many of them share the blood with "pure" Germans up to 90% (like only 1/8th Jewish ancestry) and they are not even foreigners on occupied land. Yet the Nazis tried to have a warm relationship with Arabs against the British, while the Arabs share the same ancestor with Jews. Ironic, isn't?

So for a racist, it will pick up you regardless your true "race", in the same way it will not defend you for the same "race" it shares with you either. "race" is only an excuse for violence, it is nothing if it does not serve such purpose.
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Lets not mischaracterize the most racist regime as Nazi Germany. I agree that what they did is abhorrent and absolutely despicable to 6 million Jews (having visited both Auschwitz and Israel's Yad Vashem personally to see first-hand).

Lets not forget that over 10 million africans died in slavery in North America and that 100 million natives had to die in order to create the United States. If anybody disagrees with this assertion, then that says more about them and holocaust denial than anybody else.
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
voyager1 said:
Thats why I am saying that its time for China to start delivering for S.Korea (obviously China will buy its neutrality or even friendship). China talks a lot but it doesn't deliver on the N.Korea issue. The rest of the world knows that China holds influence on N.Korea which whilst not unlimited it is still powerful
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Why? Does China owe anything to SK? Why is NK an issue that should be solved to begin with? NK is only an issue in the eyes of SK and USA. On the other hand in China's mind US stationing an army on the peninsular was, is and will be the issue blocking Korean unification. The rest of world also knows very well that USA holds the key to permanent peace on the peninsular.

I putting these questions is not an attempt to provoke. But rather to make the point that things look very differently if you stand on a different side.

The suggestion of "China to deliver SK something" is nothing new. The SK media has been saying "China should endorse a SK lead unification of Korea" during the height of NK nuclear crisis some years ago. These voices even gained traction within China's media circle "SK good, NK bad" leading Chinese government to shutdown many BBS.

One thing is certain regardless what has changed, China entered the Korean war to save a security buffer between Chinese border and US force. China did not do so for any other reason. This situation did not change and will not change until US withdraw. SK knows it, that is the one only valuable that China want and must have. If SK want unification, deliver that first. With that delivered, it is not going to be a SK dominated unification either. There can only be a China friendly unified Korea. If SK is to guarantee that, I don't really see a point and difference between NK and SK.

As of Moon's fate and "China appeasing effort", it does not matter anything if he can not deliver. China does not care much. Moon's predecessor Park did much better than Moon by attending the V-J day celebration standing next to Xi at the height of NK crisis, so? The point is, one can not bargain by crying, nor by yelling, only real value exchange works.
 
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H2O

Junior Member
Registered Member
voyager1 said:
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Ukraine is heating up. Any bets on when the hostilities start?
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voyager1 said:
Another article on Ukraine, a small-scale battle has already happened with 4 Ukrainian soldiers killed
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LOL I believe you just got your answer.


Looks like the Russians are expecting a "hot" summer.

Crimean bridge. Deployment of Southern Military District heavy equipment. [Mar 29]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1377121856478568454
 
B

B.I.B.

Captain
j17wang said:
Lets not mischaracterize the most racist regime as Nazi Germany. I agree that what they did is abhorrent and absolutely despicable to 6 million Jews (having visited both Auschwitz and Israel's Yad Vashem personally to see first-hand).

Lets not forget that over 10 million africans died in slavery in North America and that 100 million natives had to die in order to create the United States. If anybody disagrees with this assertion, then that says more about them and holocaust denial than anybody else.
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It's estimated that the number of estimated natives in the US was between 2.1 million to 18 million and by the 19th century it had plummeted down to about 600,000est.
 
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