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Randomuser

Captain
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Apparently India has been trying to forge documents to get rare earth from China then secretly reselling them to the US and the west despite a huge export control. This is in line with India's behavior where it resold Russian oil to Europe to bypass sanctions. As a result, this is one of the reasons, China is cracking down on rare earths to India and choking its automobile industry. Apparently that industry is just a smuggling front. I noticed this is not reported in English news and you would not know this if you only search in English. It really shows how worthless English language websites are these days when it comes to China. You would think India is some victim when in reality it deserves every bit of pain it gets.


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And India being reactive instead of proactive, said it will try to create its own rare earth program to reduce reliance on China. Here's the thing though, it took China 30 years to build this up. India really thinks it can do this stuff overnight. I always wondered why Jai Hinds keep talking about how India and its mentality is forward thinking when it seems they are more like laggards who just want copy whatever China does.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
It is not an excuse. It's a structural flaw of BRICS. Some members are already doing bilateral trades without USD. They just cannot come around to do it collectively as BRICS. Because it apparently requires unanimous support from at least the founding members.

Without a BRICS basket of currencies, smaller economies who lack foreign reserves cannot wean themselves off the USD. Like it or not, the USD is still the most easily convertible currency today. Long story short, without an easily convertible basket of non-USD currencies, there are no true alternative currencies for international trade.

Trade can still happen without the USD, but it'll take some time for smaller economies to build appreciable reserves of the major non-USD currencies like the Yuan or Ruble. It's not an easy decision to make as you can't easily buy Russian oil with Yuan, or easily buy Chinese goods with Ruble. That was why BRICS could have cleared up this mess by creating the basket of currencies. Now the major economies of BRICS have to find a workaround for this.

BRICS doesn't appear to have an expulsion mechanism. So the "I" in BRICS can continue to spoil it forever. It had been a great blunder to conclude that nation into BRICS. But when BRICS was founded in 2009, many of the founding members had underestimated that nation's potential for duplicity and treachery.
Hello brother maybe I can add on the discussion, I pay Yuan via CIPS (ICBC branch in the Philippine) with my operator in China and Dollar with SWIFT when dealing with Europe and the US operator. From experience SWIFT charge me $10 per transaction while CIPS is for free, sometimes I just deposit the dollar straight to their dollar account in the Philippine and the Chinese operator will handle the rest, they even accept peso depending on the dollar to peso exchange rate. The flexibility of Mainland Chinese businessman is what set them apart from SK, Japanese AND THE REST OF THE WORLD, There is NO COMPARISON.
 

Sardaukar20

Captain
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Apparently India has been trying to forge documents to get rare earth from China then secretly reselling them to the US and the west despite a huge export control. This is in line with India's behavior where it resold Russian oil to Europe to bypass sanctions. As a result, this is one of the reasons, China is cracking down on rare earths to India and choking its automobile industry. Apparently that industry is just a smuggling front. I noticed this is not reported in English news and you would not know this if you only search in English. It really shows how worthless English language websites are these days when it comes to China. You would think India is some victim when in reality it deserves every bit of pain it gets.
Good. I'm glad that China was able to find out relatively quickly and put an end to this scheme.

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And India being reactive instead of proactive, said it will try to create its own rare earth program to reduce reliance on China. Here's the thing though, it took China 30 years to build this up. India really thinks it can do this stuff overnight. I always wondered why Jai Hinds keep talking about how India and its mentality is forward thinking when it seems they are more like laggards who just want copy whatever China does.
Talking is easy. They are welcomed to try. Mining rare earths is the easy part. Refining them into desirable materials and managing the toxic waste is where the real challenge is.

I am sure that current Indian rare earth refining capabilities are not up to world competitive levels. So I'm kinda guessing that India might try to attract some Western rare earth refining companies like Lynas to come and setup some plants in Gujarat. How well could this go? I'm not holding my breath.
 

tamsen_ikard

Senior Member
Registered Member
It is not an excuse. It's a structural flaw of BRICS. Some members are already doing bilateral trades without USD. They just cannot come around to do it collectively as BRICS. Because it apparently requires unanimous support from at least the founding members.

Without a BRICS basket of currencies, smaller economies who lack foreign reserves cannot wean themselves off the USD. Like it or not, the USD is still the most easily convertible currency today. Long story short, without an easily convertible basket of non-USD currencies, there are no true alternative currencies for international trade.

Trade can still happen without the USD, but it'll take some time for smaller economies to build appreciable reserves of the major non-USD currencies like the Yuan or Ruble. It's not an easy decision to make as you can't easily buy Russian oil with Yuan, or easily buy Chinese goods with Ruble. That was why BRICS could have cleared up this mess by creating the basket of currencies. Now the major economies of BRICS have to find a workaround for this.

BRICS doesn't appear to have an expulsion mechanism. So the "I" in BRICS can continue to spoil it forever. It had been a great blunder to conclude that nation into BRICS. But when BRICS was founded in 2009, many of the founding members had underestimated that nation's potential for duplicity and treachery.
I don't think China wants a busket of currencies solution for trade. What they want is for Yuan to become the main alternative to the dollar. Not some weird BRICS currency. That dilutes China's power. They might be paying a lip service but actually don't want such a currency.

What they want is that countries in the BRICS start using yuan for their primary trade currency.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
I don't think China wants a busket of currencies solution for trade. What they want is for Yuan to become the main alternative to the dollar. Not some weird BRICS currency. That dilutes China's power. They might be paying a lip service but actually don't want such a currency.

What they want is that countries in the BRICS start using yuan for their primary trade currency.
The Chinese just wan to trade freely and without restriction, any form of payment are acceptable from local currency to barter trade, there are NO LIMIT as long as the trade flow continues.
 

FriedButter

Brigadier
Registered Member
No one is interested and that includes China in surrendering their monetary policy and central bank to group of foreign people. Instead of the forum whining about India ruining everything. You guys will be whining about how India is dragging down the BRICS currency if their economy goes south (which is another vulnerability). Then you guys will be complaining about how the Chinese tax payers will be forced to bailout India. The US will simply target the others inside the BRICS currency basket to weaken China economy instead.
 

Sardaukar20

Captain
Registered Member
Hello brother maybe I can add on the discussion, I pay Yuan via CIPS (ICBC branch in the Philippine) with my operator in China and Dollar with SWIFT when dealing with Europe and the US operator. From experience SWIFT charge me $10 per transaction while CIPS is for free, sometimes I just deposit the dollar straight to their dollar account in the Philippine and the Chinese operator will handle the rest, they even accept peso depending on the dollar to peso exchange rate. The flexibility of Mainland Chinese businessman is what set them apart from SK, Japanese AND THE REST OF THE WORLD, There is NO COMPARISON.
Good for you. In Malaysia, people a little slow to adopt CIPS. Because there is still alot of inertia with the legacy banking system. So Mainland Chinese companies still quote to Malaysians in USD. MYR-RMB trade is definitely happening, but it hasn't hit mainstream yet.

That being said, mainland Chinese prices and delivery times are unrivaled. Ordering something from Japan is expensive and can take months to ship over. Plus the buyer has to do customs clearance by themselves. It's no wonder that China is dominating trade in SEA.
 

Sardaukar20

Captain
Registered Member
No one is interested and that includes China in surrendering their monetary policy and central bank to group of foreign people. Instead of the forum whining about India ruining everything. You guys will be whining about how India is dragging down the BRICS currency if their economy goes south (which is another vulnerability). Then you guys will be complaining about how the Chinese tax payers will be forced to bailout India. The US will simply target the others inside the BRICS currency basket to weaken China economy instead.
Well at this point, any BRICS currency basket discussion is kinda moot. We should move on from this pipe dream already.

In any case, China circulates two types of RMBs. One for its internal economy, and another for forex. Both RMBs are heavily regulated by the government. I don't know the actual mechanisms, but i believe that this is done to protect China's economy from forex manipulations and attacks.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Good for you. In Malaysia, people a little slow to adopt CIPS. Because there is still alot of inertia with the legacy banking system. So Mainland Chinese companies still quote to Malaysians in USD. MYR-RMB trade is definitely happening, but it hasn't hit mainstream yet.

That being said, mainland Chinese prices and delivery times are unrivaled. Ordering something from Japan is expensive and can take months to ship over. Plus the buyer has to do customs clearance by themselves. It's no wonder that China is dominating trade in SEA.
After doing business with Europeans, this is the same situation. There is no easier place to do business than China, none.
 
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