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lube

Junior Member
Registered Member
Schadenfreude is strong.
All the culture war BS the CPC have been keeping up reminds us how much they're ideologically similar to their MAGA cousins.

People got the message Poilievre would gladly be a quisling for the US if they ever got invaded.
 
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FriedRiceNSpice

FriedRiceNSpice

Major
taxiya said:
Qing is very different from earlier Han Chinese dynasties which only used military means to subjucate nomads without proper measures afterwards therefor the pacification lasted very short, at best some decades. Qing wasn't ashamed of intermarriage or playing with "Babarians", it treated Mongols like Qin dynasty handling people of other warring states 2000 years ago, "you are conquered and now live as equals". Qing was willing to do such things because itself started as "Babarians".
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Qing was not the first. Although the implementation may be different, Tang also leveraged the strategy of using nomads to fight nomads (and Han as well, albeit to a significantly lesser extent). After the complete and total destruction of the Turkic Khaganate, the Tang military continued to retain descended generals and soldiers of Turkic descent in its military for generations. An Lushan is believed to have been at least half Turkic.

Manchus were not barbarians. The Ming classified them as civilized subjects. Manchus lived in Chinese style cities, derived subsistence almost entirely from agriculture, and their culture lays fully within the Sinosphere. They were not steppe nomads like the Mongols, Turkics, Xianbei, or Xiongnu.
 
V

valysre

Junior Member
Registered Member
FriedRiceNSpice said:
After the complete and total destruction of the Turkic Khaganate, the Tang military continued to retain descended generals and soldiers of Turkic descent in its military for generations.
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Second biggest mistake of the Tang dynasty, right behind Li Shimin not killing everyone in the palace named 'Wu'. Not all the nomadic generals rebelled with An Lushan, but it has been a consistent issue in Chinese history.
 
Blitzo

Blitzo

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Bellum_Romanum said:
I don't want to blow your horn but you're a treasure/gem to read because you have the intellectual heft, discipline, ethics, and genuine interest to post well-researched, and very well argued presentation. Most impressive and in my opinion just as important is your ability to be stoic and discipline with regards to how you craft your rebuttals in a manner that is very much deserving of your position and respect you hold on this forum and elsewhere you lend your hard earned credibility. Kudos to you sir!!
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Thanks
 
FriedRiceNSpice

FriedRiceNSpice

Major
valysre said:
Second biggest mistake of the Tang dynasty, right behind Li Shimin not killing everyone in the palace named 'Wu'. Not all the nomadic generals rebelled with An Lushan, but it has been a consistent issue in Chinese history.
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An Lushan's rebellion stemmed from the ambitions of one man, it wasn't a general Turkic uprising (like the Jin dynasty era Revolt of the Five Barbarians). Other Turkic generals that rebelled did so solely out of opportunism. At that point in the Tang dynasty, the Turkic peoples had been fully Sinicized and there was no longer any form of Turkic cultural identity within China. Tang sources often pointed out that after just two or three generations of Sinicization, it was impossible to distinguish assimilated Turks from Han.
 
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